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williamj (9) 03-20-08  11:06am
Rookie Badge  Talk Back  Pollster  Trusted User  Male Profile TRUST USER?   YES (29), NO (0)


I think pornusers should Boycott ALL SITES FROM THIS COMPANY. I had this problem years back with a different site. I sent them an email and CC the state attorney generals office, I got all the charges refunded with an apology. These criminal sites only respond when they know your ready to go to war with them.

READ THIS! (This is from a member of PU Senior Staff Vegas Ken)


Vegas Ken wrote this:
just wanted to let everyone know that the people at Incredible Dollars, the company that runs Incrediblepass.com and all their assocated sites, have listened to your feedback and have made changes for you here at PornUsers.com and TheBestporn.com.

They have taken all of the "Cross Sales" off of the join pages for PU and TBP users! This is a big statement that they do listen to your feedback and act accordingly. Now this is just special for you guys! (MY COMMENT: SO ITS OKAY TO RIP OFF OTHERS)

So going forward, you can join any of the IncredibleDollars sites thru PU or TBP and know that you don't have to worry about getting charged for anything that you did not want or expect.

Thanks for reading and happy porn shopping!

Vegas Ken
Dir. of Marketing

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Msg # User Message Date


Denner (235) Apart from my earlier answer to both williamj and Vegas Ken on this matter, just this:

I totally agree with williamj: BOYCUTT ALL SITES FROM THIS COMPANY!

Just see the troubles and problems these people have caused other PUs......It could have been you!

But bottom line, Vegas Ken of TBP admitted the input about the socalled improvement from the pass-site was a slip.
I still have confidence in TBP and PU.

03-20-08  03:01pm

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RagingBuddhist (65) Wow.
Drama time.

williamj -

At first, I wasn't too happy about what Ken's announcement appeared to say either. But, if you'd bother to read what he had to say to Denner in his comment about this issue, there would be no need for all this yelling, and kicking. He said:

"I was not trying to present this as an "offer". I think that my excitement cam thru the wrong way in my previous post. For that I appologize."

No one is forcing you to associate yourself with PornUsers. If it really meant all you said it did, that it was enough to make you think that PornUser's is run by people who condone criminal activity, why bother posting a separate comment on something that was already addressed? You are certainly free to leave us if you so choose. But do it with a little grace - not by screaming about respect, disgrace and criminals...

03-20-08  04:32pm

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williamj (9) REPLY TO #2 - RagingBuddhist :

I disagree with you on drama time. If Vegas Ken would have made a separate posting for all to see at Log-In, not deep in some Reply Posting, clarifing his orginal comment to Denner, yes some of my distrust and negativity could have been avoided.

Back on 1/11/2008 PU members began posting this issue with very $$$ expensive over billing. Vegas Ken should have been much more up-front in condeming this site and not wording his response as if they thought it was fine. In time, he addressed his remarks.

Overbilling and mis-representation is real issue with adult sites. My intention was to expose this 'normal business' practice of adding all type of unwanted charges and make members aware of caution.

In the future I will research all comments/replys before I state anything. In all respect, I want to be fair to both the adult sites and mangement of PU.

Thank you for your insight...

03-20-08  05:08pm

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RagingBuddhist (65) REPLY TO #3 - williamj :

Okay - I guess it was easy enough to have missed Ken's explanation. But there are still more diplomatic ways to get a point across without screaming accusations about criminal activity and leaving the forum.

Maybe I have to say that I take this somewhat personally because I am a member of this site and, by your original post, I felt like I was being told I was also guilty by association. I think the people at PornUsers do a great service to it's members and will defend it when I feel the need to.

And thank you for your response. : - )

03-20-08  05:20pm

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williamj (9) REPLY TO #1 - Denner :

Thank you for your Replay. PLZ read my response to RaggingBuddist.
If anything, Pornusers give us a voice. I understand a poor rating because the site is just poor. If the owners read the remarks, maybe they make business changes to market their site better. That is a goal to make sites more erotic by our input at PU? But flat out over charging from domestic or foreign adult web sites, well I just have to hammer down hard. Like any other product we expect quality not trouble with credit card billing and false advertisement. In short, I tend to get my "Irish" up when it comes to taking peoples money and playing us as a fool. I will research a bit more in the future, but I'll call it like I see. No apolizes.

03-20-08  05:31pm

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williamj (9) REPLY TO #4 - RagingBuddhist :

What you need to understand is a basic fact: Companies such as the one in question made a very open decision to implement these unwanted charges. It was not a 'computer error' someone at their organization signed off on charging memebers unwanted excess CC Billing, making it very difficult for the person to disput these unwanted charges and I'm sure a bit embrassing to disput. RB, if you where a victim you'd be very upset I'm sure. True?

Guilt by Association? Much the opposite. I created a forum, regardless of how hard it may seem. Other members will read accordingly and see I voiced a unwanted billing problems that many have experienced to great discomfort. I don't believe other members will think I was grouping them in 'guilt of association' and be glad I was so vocal. Other PU members are free to read and make their own adult opinion. I've commented and made replays accordingly to all fellow members.

03-20-08  05:52pm

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PU Staff
REPLY TO #5 - williamj :

Hey William,

Thought I would add another point of view from the staff here at Pornusers.

Our entire goal behind TheBestPorn and PornUsers is to expose everything, good and bad. Consider us as the fact checkers. We absolutely work with both sides here... the consumers and the vendors. Our goal is to bring good consumers together with good products/services. Sometimes it's not always easy to do.

When I saw the join page from an e-mail we initially had received, I went straight to Ken (who's job is to work with webmasters on getting special deals, assist on issues such as this, etc.) to help resolve this. The cross-sells to me were extremely misleading. We hate seeing tactics like that and our consumers NEED to be aware of them at the very least. Be very clear, we DO NOT endorse this practice. We went to them and straight up told them how we felt. We were getting ready to add warning messages on our pages like we normally would, but it was surprising that they actually resolved this for our consumers as quickly as they did (we honestly didn't expect they would) and removed such cross-sells from the join page.

The point of my post is to illustrate our position and where we stand and what to expect from us. Expect us to have your back, but not always in the way you want. Either way, we still have your back. You might think we should remove the Incredible Pass sites completely. It sure would be a lot easier for us, but we have always believed in giving the users all the information (warnings) and letting them choose. Users can then decide whether it's worth the risk to continue or not. Who are we to say they shouldn't be given the choice.

These type of things do come up quite a bit and we have to make the decision we think is best for that situation. In this situation, the fact that our links now provide no crosss-sells and still maintain a discounted price, means we've done a damn good job with this one. If yer looking for us to be the porn police, unfortunately that's just not the business we want to be in.

03-20-08  06:19pm

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williamj (9) REPLY TO #7 - Rick :

Thank you for your response from the staff at Pornusers. Of course I'm not looking for some police on what adult sites to join. I believe all memebers can decide which sites to join on their own. Memeber input is of great value, which we all can agree on? True? De-listing a site? Absolutely not. I agree 100% to never do a de-listing? I believe members should be heard and all postings should be posted.

The fact that your site says 'Links' give a no cross-sells and still maintian a discounted price for PU users' is still a bit troubling. Look at your past postings.

What about everyone else who searches your sister site or other sites? Is this not a wink to the site in question that it's okay?

I would like PU to say out front that they disappove of all sites that practice un-wanted CC billing. And ID those sites that do it?

Isn't this the type of information we all seek?

03-20-08  07:04pm

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jd1961 (95) It is much better for TBP and PU to leave this site up in the listings. because I can tell you , after reading the warnings and comments here, that there is no way i would ever join this site. And it's because it is listed. If it weren't listed, how would I know? When I consider joining a site, I look at all the input here. And I'm not the only one looking---the webmaster is also. let him see all the warnings.
03-20-08  07:37pm

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PU Staff
REPLY TO #8 - williamj :

Cool. Your welcome man. Here's my reply to that...

Regarding our sister site (at this time only being TheBestPorn.com), it uses the same outgoing links as PornUsers, so anything we do on either site will apply for both. I can't speak for other review sites and have no control over their links.

The fact that we did something about this, should say how we disapprove of that billing method. In my last reply I spelled out clearly how I thought it was misleading as well. If we did approve of this type of practice, we would do nothing about it. We post warnings when we see something that's unusual or shady all the time also.

I could go on about what we warn people about, especially the details we try to provide with trial information (which no other site has tackled yet). We have a lot of plans to expand on thse warnings in our site facts also, but it's down the road a bit (one thing at time, forum is next).

You say you want us to boycott the site, but you also say "you're not looking for some police on what adult sites to join". I'm not in the business to structure boycotts and blacklists, that would be a nightmare and probably result in disaster. If there's proof of something going down, we'll expose the facts. You guys decide who to boycott and who not to. Our job is to provide you with the means to do so.

03-20-08  08:01pm

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Denner (235) REPLY TO #9 - jd1961 :

Agree with JD - keep it listed - that way we'll all know what site/pass to skip.....
03-21-08  09:41am

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asmith12 (124) I think I've missed something :-). Could somebody tell what's all this whole story is about?
03-21-08  12:03pm

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jd1961 (95) REPLY TO #12 - asmith12 :

Go to this site's PU page, and read all the comments and you'll get the gist of it.
03-21-08  08:50pm

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badandy400 (103) I must say that it is not true anyway. I did not do my homework on this site before joining, though this site by the way. I was charged extra for joining this site, and that was this past Sunday night. The site is very large and runs very fast and easy, but I do agree with avoiding it based on principal. The do rip people off, and it is fraud. The only reason I download from the site was to at least make them pay for the bandwidth usage, I am sure that 150 GB in 6 hours is not cheap to maintain. I felt a need to rip them off just as they did to me and many others now. It is too bad this site could not be bought out by an honest porn lover, instead it is run by people as evil as the oil executives who rape us every time we drive to work.

They need to clean up their act. There are good things to say about this site, but I do not want to say them without saying "DONT JOIN!"

03-21-08  09:32pm

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williamj (9) REPLY TO #14 - badandy400 :

Thanks forr commenting...hopefully others will be warned before joining. 150 GB LOL you killed them for sure
03-22-08  04:06am

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badandy400 (103) REPLY TO #15 - williamj :

I hope so too. I did not notice the warning until after I join, stupid me. But I am glad people said something about i because I was begining to wonder about a few emails I had received, so this site gave confirmation to what I was suspecting.

I also hope that they had to pay a premium on the 150 GB I downloaded, maybe it put them over their usage for the month or something.

03-22-08  09:37pm

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asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #13 - jd1961 :

Thanks. It looks that the whole industry goes downhill. "We're not cheating anymore" is now considered a good advertisement :-(.
03-25-08  02:20pm

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PaulCS (Disabled) My Name is Paul and I am the customer service manger for the IncrediblePass sites.

We initially tested cross sales on our join pages and many people may have inadvertently signed up for other offers. It is for that reason that we have removed all cross sale offers from the join pages if you sign up with the best porn. And yes, this is change is a direct reaction to your comments.

We pride ourselves in customer satisfaction and would like everyone to be happy and apologize to anyone that may have had any difficulty whatsoever!

If you've had bad experiences, please contact me at paul@incrediblepass.com and I'd like to handle your case personally.

04-28-08  08:31am

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williamj (9) REPLY TO #18 - PaulCS :

Why is that week after week more and more negative remarks are posted about your site. The one underlining thing about the site is the lack of response from the web master. PU memembers have a real problem with over billing and we are very vocal in letting other members aware of issues.
04-28-08  08:37am

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PaulCS (Disabled) REPLY TO #19 - williamj :

To be honest, we weren't aware that we had so many members posting here. When we first saw this site, it was just starting and there was a lot less interaction. Now that we're here.. we'll keep an eye on the comments.

This is a great resource for you to post your comments, and we appreciate the heads up on any problems.

Please realize that we have a LOT of very happy customers, otherwise we wouldn't still be around. There are bound to be problems every once in a while, and I would be glad to help anyone who is not satisfied with their experience.

Thank you for your feedback,


04-28-08  08:46am

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