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Visit The English Mansion

The English Mansion (0)

JoshP (0) 05-04-07  11:45am
No Badges TRUST USER?   YES (1), NO (1)

No Going Back...

If you like the look of this site, please be sure you really want to join before you sign up. After being a member for less than a couple of hours, I decided that I wasn't happy with the photo content (small image sizes, small galleries). I wanted a cancellation and refund.

After stating my reasons via email, the hosts sent back a rebuttal telling me my claims were 'unwarranted' and that the site's content was clear from the preview pages. Believe me, what you see up front gives no clarity as to what you get as a member, same as many other adult sites. What's different about The English Mansion is they leave no room whatsoever for dissatisfaction. I persisted with my inquiry but was told that 'as far as we are concerned, the matter is now closed'. Thanks for listening, guys.

I wasn't trying to jerk them around and I feel my case for a refund was legitimate, I outlined my reasons clearly and received a straight up no in response. In my view, even if I hadn't given any reasons, if I'd just said that I was dissatisfied, THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH. So much for customer service.

I understand that the porn business is built on the art of teasing customers into coughing up cash and joining up - I mean, when was the last time you saw an in depth and honest preview tour? I'll play that game, but to be allowed no way out if I don't like what I see? That's just robbery. I now feel chumped, paying for a subscription I'm not using. Good job I didn't sign up for their 3 month 'deal'.

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Comment Replies (12)

Replies to the user comment above.

Msg # User Message Date

1

SteveWebslave (1)
Webmaster
JoshP - We advised you before you joined our site, that we do not sell individual galleries. So when you subsequently joined, downloaded the specific gallery you wanted and then wrote an email requesting a refund (attempting to disguise your name from your original email) we politely declined your request. To say that you received poor customer service because our support team were wise to your scam, is a little bitter and unfair.

Our preview tour is 100% honest and in depth, with over 150 hours of movie footage (that's 1,286 movie clips of approx. 7 mins each) and a new movie for our members every single day, we do not need to trick people into joining our site. As for photo's, if you look at our preview tour, it's obvious that our focus is on movies, however we do actually say how many photo's we have on the 4th page of the tour and we even state the maximum size of the pics as 800 pixels on the longest side, to avoid any confusion. What you see and read in our preview, gives clarity as to what is inside.

We have never/never will misrepresent the content of our site. We work extremely hard to provide our members with excellent product and service, which is reflected by the thousands of satisfied members who join and rejoin our site each year.

06-28-07  08:05am

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2

JoshP (0) REPLY TO #1 - SteveWebslave :

'Bitter' and 'unfair' is an unsatisfied customer unable to state those feelings without challenge. One unhappy customer among 'thousands of satisfied members' is small potatoes, so why not let me have my say in peace?

I'm no scam artist. I've joined many porn sites and paid my money and enjoyed them. Some have been sad disappointments. Those few were gracious enough to give me my money back and go on looking after their members, not worrying about the ones that slipped the net.

If I buy a pair of jeans in a store, take them home and they don't fit, I should be able to take them back with a receipt of purchase and receive a refund. Straightforward customer service 101. If I wear the jeans to go mud sliding in the park and then try to take them back, the storekeeper can gladly tell me to jog on.

Online, that scenario would be tantamount to me downloading huge quantities of material and then asking for my money back. One gallery download is no scam. Besides, I can't have wanted the gallery that much if it was so poor I ended up trashing it.

07-09-07  03:41pm

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3

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #1 - SteveWebslave :

Not sure that you're listening out there (your reply was posted way too long ago), but on any account your support did an extremely poor job. First of all, keeping customers happy is a cornerstone of doing long-term business (opposed to hit-n-run businesses), and deviating from it have already cost you lots of customers (for instance, myself - I won't join the site with such a comment and such a webmaster reply).
Second, to make their customers happy, both VISA and MC have policies which allow to challenge any credit card charge quickly and efficiently (and which can be barely argued in case of website subscription with no goods physically delivered); I wonder why JoshP didn't come to his bank and say "I want to dispute the transaction of $XX.YY which appear on my statement on DD MMM 2006. I wasn't satisfied with service provided and wasn't able to solve it contacting the merchant" - usually this is enough to get full refund via your own bank (takes a few weeks but eventually does work).

PS Or maybe support is run by one of site dominatrixes? That would explain attitude, but still is a very poor way of doing business.

10-28-07  08:50am

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4

SteveWebslave (1)
Webmaster
REPLY TO #2 - JoshP :

As a fair and responsible website operator, we do have a refund policy and when legitimate reasons are given we do refund customers.

However, in the 5 years we have been running the site, I am pleased to say that the number of refund requests have been few and far between. This is primarily because we clearly state on the outside of our site, exactly what you get on the inside.

I have a more appropriate analogy than your 'jean theory'. If you were to walk into a news agents shop, buy an adult mag and take it home, then walk back into the shop several hours later asking for a refund, claiming that you didn't like the magazine and you only looked at a couple of pages, would you really expect the shop owner to give you your money back?

If a website delivers everything that it claims on the outside - you cannot expect a refund because you subsequently decide you want out. If the website mis-represents it's content, then fair enough, you may have a case for a refund. That is not what happened in this case.

This is quite simple - you wanted a specific gallery for free, you joined, downloaded it, then tried to mask your identity when claiming a refund. I cannot imagine any website giving you a refund under these circumstances?

10-29-07  03:52pm

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5

SteveWebslave (1)
Webmaster
REPLY TO #3 - asmith12 :

Keeping customers happy, is actually something we are very proud of and something we do very well, providing customer support in French, German and English, replying to every email within 24 hours, 365 days a year.

I'm a little unclear as to what you are saying. It appears from your comments that you are condolning somebody joining a pay site, downloading what they want and then demanding a refund by getting their bank or credit card company to dispute the transaction. You seem to be suggesting people should commit fraud? After all, this is what Josh P did - he joined our site, downloaded what he wanted, then masked his identity when trying to claim a refund. He then also sent us emails which were tantamount to blackmail, as he said he would go round the web, writing bad reviews to loose us business unless we gave him his money back.

10-29-07  03:54pm

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6

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #5 - SteveWebslave :

> Keeping customers happy, is actually something we are very proud of and something we do very well...
No comment.

> It appears from your comments that you are condolning somebody joining a pay site, downloading what they want and then demanding a refund by getting their bank or credit card company to dispute the transaction. You seem to be suggesting people should commit fraud?
That's only the way you prefer to read it. What I've said is that if there is a conflict between VISA customer and VISA merchant (and it doesn't matter what is the reason of the conflict: fraudulent charge or service so poor so it wasn't really possible to use it), one of the ways (which seems the most convenient to me) is to bring this conflict to the customer's bank to solve, that's it. And then it will be the bank who will decide how to deal with the matter. I should mention though that as far as I know, historically VISA/MC tend to like their customers much more than their merchants, so in case of doubts conflicts tend to be resolved in customer's favor. Any other questions?

> After all, this is what Josh P did...
Again, this is just your interpretation, and given the way you've interpreted my own words, personally I tend to doubt this your interpretation too. Still, in case of conflict it shouldn't be decided by me (and even less by you as you're the party of the conflict) but by appropriate conflict resolution body (like bank in the case of VISA-related conflict).

10-30-07  02:29am

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7

SteveWebslave (1)
Webmaster
REPLY TO #6 - asmith12 :

You talk about my interpretation as if there is some ambiguity here as to who was in the wrong. Maybe you didn't read the earlier messages?

Fact 1 - Josh P contacted us via email asking whether he could buy a specific photo gallery from our site. We replied advising that we do not sell individual galleries.

Fact 2 - Josh P joined our site and downloaded the said gallery.

Fact 3 - Josh P emailed us with a different email address demanding a refund with no reason given.

Fact 4 - Josh P emailed us and said that if we do not give him a refund he will go around the web and write bad reviews about us.

These are the facts - this is not down to anyone's interpretation. Why you are blindly jumping to this guy's defence is puzzling?

10-30-07  03:03am

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8

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #7 - SteveWebslave :

> You talk about my interpretation as if there is some ambiguity here as to who was in the wrong.
Sure there is some ambiguity and some of your interpretation; first of all, there is no way to identify person reliably on the Internet (except for digital certificates, but I really doubt they were involved).

But this is not that important, what is more important is your answer to the following question: if somebody (without any e-mails which you would interpret as coming from him) will subscribe, then come in, download one gallery and say that he's not satisfied, asking for a refund - what would you do? Will you refund or not? If no, then all the references to Josh's alleged e-mail are irrelevant, if yes, then the whole thing just didn't make any sense from business point of view - cost of time and efforts (not to mention loss of goodwill) spent on this pretty specific case has already exceeded the refund amount many-fold.

PS > Why you are blindly jumping to this guy's defence is puzzling?
It's very simple and you should expect it on the Internet, especially in places like this one: I'm a customer too, and dealing with unscrupulous merchants all the time (see for instance my comment 'Swindling alert'). I can imagine that you're dealing with fraudulent customers all the time either, but fortunately that's not my problem :-).

10-30-07  03:30am

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9

SteveWebslave (1)
Webmaster
REPLY TO #8 - asmith12 :

You say "there is no way to identify person reliably on the Internet" - fine were it not for the fact that we know that is was him and Josh P admitted in his first response that it was him. That leaves no room for doubt.

To answer your second question, no, we would not refund somebody who joined our site, downloaded a gallery, then said they didn't like it. Quite simply, we clearly state on the outside of our site, what you get on the inside. We give potential members 42 (forty two) free trailers to preview, 7 full pages of photo's and information previewing our content - all of which is 100% accurate as to what is inside.

If however, we were misleading people in our preview tour, as Josh claims some sites do, then we would expect to get repeat requests for refunds. We don't, because our members actually get more than what we state on the outside.

To comment on your third point - I welcome your challenges to unscrupulous merchants and I suspect there are many out there, but TheEnglishMansion.com is not one of them :-)

10-30-07  07:16am

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10

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #9 - SteveWebslave :

> no, we would not refund somebody who joined our site, downloaded a gallery, then said they didn't like it
It means that all the references to Josh's e-mails are completely irrelevant, so I'm not even sure that you did have a right to mention such potentially sensitive information in public forum (especially as in this case you seem to be bound not only with publicly available privacy policy, but also with your contractual obligations with JoshP).

Bottom line: as I've already said, my understanding is that support did an extremely poor job in handling this situation. Furthermore, I'm sure that allowing refunds in such cases of 'hate on the first glance' (sure, not after user downloaded 20G of content) would be beneficial for all the parties involved.

10-30-07  08:23am

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11

SteveWebslave (1)
Webmaster
REPLY TO #10 - asmith12 :

Frankly, what you personally think I have the right to do or mention is completely irrelevant.

When somebody blatently lies in a public forum and slanders a reputeable business, the truth should be aired and I have every right to state the absolute truth. The fact that it doesn't suit your crusade against websites in this forum is a great shame, but eventually you'll get over it.

I have a business to run, so this is my final post on the matter, no matter how much more you try and flame the situation. I have stated the case for all to see. Over and out :)

10-30-07  09:59am

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12

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #11 - SteveWebslave :

> Frankly, what you personally think I have the right to do or mention is completely irrelevant.
It is indeed very relevant to this site that you should comply with your own privacy policy, and I'm not sure your posts here are in compliance. What you did post may (or may not, depending on jurisdiction and other factors) constitute "individual user personal information", which your site claims to protect.

> When somebody blatently lies in a public forum and slanders a
> reputeable business,
And what exactly this "blatant lie" was? That you didn't issue refund? You agreed yourself it's truth. That he's unsatisfied customer? I tend to trust him on this one. So could you please mention what was the alleged lie?

> the truth should be aired and I have every right to state the
> absolute truth.
Do you really pretend to know what the absolute truth is?

10-30-07  10:25am

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