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asmith12 (124) 05-15-08  03:13pm
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Outrageous Terms and Conditions

From http://www.nolimitweb.nl/terms.htm :
"The occurrence of complaints from Customers, inquiries, Credit Backs or Charge Backs with respect to the Client's program or service may be cause for termination of this Agreement if such events occur with unacceptable frequency as determined in the sole discretion of the Company. In addition, The Company reserves the right to charge the Client reasonable fees and recover its expenses on account of Credit Backs, Charge Backs, or excessive customer inquiries." - have anybody seen anything like this? These guys seem to reserve the right to charge members as much as they wish, at their sole discretion.

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Msg # User Message Date

1

Toadsith (48) I don't usually read the Terms and Conditions but I'll bet this isn't all that uncommon. In business in general it is common practice to reserve as many rights as you can think of with no concern as to if it will or will not hold up in the court of law. If you had it written down in the first place it can do nothing other than help you. So they write it down and hope for the best. If you check the policies of many companies outside this industry you'll find the same thing. The company I work for reserves everything excluding possibly enslaving your offspring to pay off debts incurred. Though we might have an addendum that covers that.
05-16-08  12:05am

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2

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #1 - Toadsith :

> In business in general it is common practice to reserve as many rights as you can think of...

You're right, but on the other hand everything has it's limits. I'm reading documents I'm signing VERY carefully, and I'm sure that if my bank would write "we reserve the right to charge you for excessive inquiries at our sole discretion", I wouldn't be a client of that bank :-).

05-16-08  03:35am

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3

Goldfish (67) asmith. I understand what you're doing but doesn't it make more sense to give us your experiences with five or ten sites you've actually joined? I believe that's the point of the poll. Besides, if there is disclosure of elements in the site that you may not like in the free area or the terms and conditions, isn't that ethical business practice? I think it is.
05-16-08  04:31am

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4

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #3 - Goldfish :

> doesn't it make more sense to give us your experiences with five or ten > sites you've actually joined?
My understanding this is a completely different thing. The question as I read it was about sites out there, not about sites one cares to join (which means pre-selection process, especially for PU users). I think poll results confirm my interpretation too (I don't think that somebody was mistreated by 75% of the sites he joined).

> if there is disclosure of elements in the site that you may not like > in the free area or the terms and conditions, isn't that ethical
> business practice? I think it is.
Yes, and you should note that there were several sites I've considered "probably ethical but definitely not worth to join", so it's not about liking or disliking free area, but an estimate of chances of them lying in free area (if garbage site doesn't promise anything, it's ok, but if it says they have daily updates, it's suspicious). About terms and conditions, I didn't say these guys are necessarily unethical, but outrageous terms and conditions make me quite suspicious, so I wrote "unethical: unclear" for them. Sure this whole exercise is all about personal interpretation, but I hope mine isn't too far out :-).

05-16-08  04:44am

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5

Toadsith (48) REPLY TO #2 - asmith12 :

That would indeed be wise :-) Though you might be surprised the terms and conditions you have inadvertently agreed to in the past. Sometimes it requires as little acknowledgment as taking the document into your possession. Trains were covering all kinds of crazy conditions by just printing them very small on the train ticket and stating that by taking the ticket you agreed to the conditions. I think in the end they got in trouble for that, but it worked for a while, lol
05-16-08  03:48pm

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6

asmith12 (124) REPLY TO #5 - Toadsith :

> Sometimes it requires as little acknowledgment as taking the document
> into your possession.
As far as I've heard, usually in such cases courts are VERY reluctant to upheld these conditions :-), so it's mostly a weapon of frightening customers who're going to complain. Still, whenever I notice such conditions, I feel that such guys are trying to cheat me, so why I should do business with them, especially if there is a choice?

05-16-08  04:10pm

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