Current Member for less than 1 month (at the time of review).
+ Exclusive content that updates 5x a week.
+ Good $10, 30 day membership through TBP.
+ Great 2500 x 1700 pics with zips and true 1080 HD vids with good download speeds. 4 DL options for vids including mobile device sized. Also streaming available with good speeds and ability to jump within a scene.
+ Smallish watermarks
+ Attractive girls (18 - 30 range) with few "enhancements". A good mix between porn stars and more unknowns, at least to me.
+ A unique site in terms of the artistic and hardcore factors it tries to combine.
+ A good mix of content (about 40% HC, 40% solo, and 20% lez).
+ User ratings and comments sections and social media connections.
- Tags / search engine is poor.
- Navigation needs an overhaul.
- Some ads on main page and when logging in.
- Prechecked cross sale on signup.
- The "artistic" feel the site is trying to convey gets lost with bad lighting, bad composition and iffy camera / cropping work.
- Very few positions shown for all scenes.
- Lots of hoops to jump through to cancel.
- Has a model directory but with very little info.
- You get timed out somewhat quickly and there are capcha's every time you log in.
- A fair amount of photoshopping and post production effects going on.
This is my first voyage into the world of "heartcore" / "lovecore" figuring it looked like it had great quality and would be something different. True, it was different. You won't find anal, dp's, gagging and the like here which is fine by me. I'd like to think that years of overexposure to gonzo porn and too much degrading porn (sort of the default it seems) has made me so jaded to my inner sensitive new age guy. However, even using that standard of measure this site just didn't seem to add up for me. Here's the lowdown:
PICS: The setup looked good. Site has about 125 HC, 56 lez, and 106 solo sets (all have 100 or more pics) and the pics are quite large with zips. However, it quickly broke down. When viewing in browser, the default setting is for a slideshow but you can click to a thumbnail layout. If you click on a thumbnail and go back a page you get the slideshow again. Way too much clicking. You can only view the full sized pics by DL'ing the zips; the inbrowser view is only 800x550. Additionally, you can't even see all the thumbnails and the way the thumbnails are laid out (horizontal as opposed to the usual vertical) you have to use their in browser "forward arrow" which is clunky at best.
There are several photographers working here and most seem to be too damn artsy for their own good. Lots of scenes use natural lighting which results in dark pics and lots of shadows. Also the default seems to be to have the camera in a fixed position which limits the angles and views we're used to seeing.
For hardcore, there is a big focus on foreplay which results in only about 2 positions for actual sex. Given that the camera seems trapped in a fixed position for many scenes the result is that it often feels like your watching a scene from some 1980's Hustler where they couldn't show actual penetration, you just sorta know they're doing it. The lack of positions comes across in the lez and solo stuff too. I guess I like more variety as opposed to just soaking in what's in front of me.
While you get about a lot of pics per set, most of it seems to be a mosaic masterclass - here's a pose but in one frame you get a head, another the torso, another a leg, here's another with some artistic blurriness, etc. The vids are better in this respect but it does gets frustrating regarding the pics. I guess when I think artsy I think of some originality and professional output. A lot of these scenes feel more like someone who knows photography but hasn't shot porn before and isn't quite up to it.
VIDS: About 130 HC, 120 solo, and 60 lez. In browser stream works great and the HD is real HD which looks great ... meaning it's only as great as the way the scene was shot. My main complaint with the vids is their composition and artsy feel which is mostly identical to the issues I outlined in the "pics" section above. A lot of the vids have music in the beginning, some music go throughout.
NAV: Yet another site that built a navigation system when they were small and it no longer works for beans once they've grown. I already groused about the in browser pic issues. The scenes have tags but they are limited. If you search under tags, say "brunette", you'll get a result saying there are 182 scenes. However, it will only bring up 30: there is no way I can see to show them all. The tags are too few (some scenes are mistagged too) and too generic given the number of scenes they have.
If you poke around under their 3 general categories of HC, solo, and lez you'll find that recent updates aren't included. The only way to look at everything is to go through every page of updates - which only lets you jump back or ahead a few pages at a time.
I give this site an 82 because of the quality, the amount of content and the hot girls. However, for me they missed the boat on what they were trying to achieve. This is not porn for women since the focus seems mostly centered on the girls and there is no real talking or kissing-centric theme and the HC ends with a body or facial cumshot. The softer artistic side of porn put forth here seems to get washed over by the crop / framing jobs, low lighting and one position camera angles in many scenes. Those who like artsy porn may be interested in this but I think that for most the HC isn't the hardcore we're used to seeing (and not just the gonzo / rough sex stuff, just the composition in general). The softcore / lez stuff with an artsy feel is done much better by places like HegreArt, MetArt and the like.
I guess I went into this with my hopes set a bit too high. I think this site would work best for someone who digs softcore and art photography and might be looking to try some hardcore. If, like me, you have more of a hardcore background then you're more likely to walk away disappointed.
I just subscribed with Brazzers (Awesome site by the way) and my card company called me to verify suspicious charges made on my card. (automated assistance) had me verify the last 3 charges, 2 said Ireland at $9.99 and 1 Epoch at $9.95 (i received a discount else where) well the membership is a 30 day unlimited trial for $9.95 it will continue at $24.95 after.
Now my bank is still not showing any withdraw yet so i dont know what has been charged yet.
Has anyone experienced this? I've read somewhere else when you do a trial they charged you the full price but the money never leaves your bank unless you do not cancel the membership (2 day trials). I wonder if maybe mine is the same since my membership states 30 day trial?
Also i made sure to uncheck all cross sales very cautiously as i always do. I would really hate to be ripped by a potential favorite site.
Was a member approx. 6 months prior to this review.
- $20/month is a fair price for a ton of content
- over 5,000 scenes
- good clean organization; multiple ways to search - keyword, star, type, etc
- live shows (I skipped these when I was a member so I can't comment about them)
- about 30 sites with a range of genres from interracial to milfs and teens, there just about everything you could be looking for (especially if that's big boobs)
- high res pix and video. Video is 1920X1080 about 5.5 mbps
- videos available in .mp4 and .wmv
- major payer in porn so they shoot most major stars - if you have a favorite I'd be surprised if she hasn't shot for Brazzers.
- multiple updates per week.
- cleaver setups (they follow the basic porn formula but they're also have fun - parodies, holiday setups, etc.)
- long videos (generally 20 minutes or more)
- majority of models skew toward big boobs (meaning mostly fakes).
- not all sites are still updating. That may have been clear before I joined, but I didn't notice it.
Brazzers is one of the main stays in the online porn game. They're worth checking out if you haven't before; but don't kid yourself about what you'll get. You get mainstream porn. Good quality mainstream - but mainstream none the less. If you're looking for anything off the beaten path, or something that doesn't follow the standard porn formula this isn't going to provide it.
With more than 5,000 shoot you can find something that scratches your itch, but you don't see anything unique here.
Brazzers seems to having some problems lately. No pic sets for about the last week, and some screen shots sets are so blurry. When brazzers is going to fix this problems I'm not sure and according to tech support they know about this problems.
I'm a big fan of studio sites (as long as I'm a fan of the studio, of course) so I was intrigued by this site. But clicking on just about any link on the main preview page links to the join page. Want to see what DVDs they offer? Link to the join page. Want to see what models they have? Link to the join page. I'll probably join anyway, but this crap really bugs me. If they're proud of their site then show it off. This tactic makes it look like they're hiding something.
Current Member for over 1 month (at the time of review).
* Large supply of HD content
* Slick design
* Nice search and filter capability
* Male actors are not annoying
* Way too many fake boobs
* Very few mature. Basically two models categorized as such.
* Few teens.
* The Flash player isn't great
* Seems ass-phobic despite heavy anal
Brazzers is the only sight that I've lasted for more than a month on for quite some time. I keep finding good stuff.
It looks great and makes most sites look cheap. The filtering is quite slick. You can stack categories to narrow things down. On most sites you can only pick one at a time. For example, on Brazzers you can easily search for milf+bikini+cream pie+brunette.
If you're mostly a streamer, Brazzers has you covered. They allow you to add scenes to your favorites and follow models. But what if you forget to favorite a scene? No problem, they have a viewing history list. Nice.
I don't like how they put the promotions so up front. How about giving customers a break instead of treating them like outsiders?
Sometimes it seems like they have one director and he has no interest in a woman's backside. You can get some butt worship on the anal scenes but, as an ass fan, I believe the ass should be a focus and not just when she's bends over with holes exposed. Unless a woman's ass is downright ugly it should be displayed often. You can find scene after scene with no cowgirl position which sucks for people like me.
They seem to have about three male actors. Fortunately, they are not annoying and don't get in the way.
Their Flash player should be upgraded. I like being able to put my mouse on the timeline and see a thumbnail of that spot. This is a feature of youtube for example.
I keep finding great stuff to add to my favorites list. The models are all pros and some of them are way hot. If you don't mind fake boobs and love anal then you must try it out.
Current Member for less than 1 month (at the time of review).
- Good interface, easy to navigate
- Good quality videos
- Pictures decent size and well compressed
- (Almost) daily updates - photos and videos
- Photos and videos come in matching sets
- Plenty of undressing
- Camera angles
- No anal (a plus for me!)
- Some videos have music track throughout - no voice - others have bland music
- $=€=£ regional pricing (use TunnelBear to sign up)
- DMs don't work on videos
- Captcha on login
- Some fake boobs and tans (but not too many)
- Short login timeout
- Bit too much of the guy finishing himself off
- File naming a bit off
Although I generally prefer softcore sites, I have grown fond of the kind of tender, sharing, intimate and realistic (if somewhat idealised) sex scenes that the relatively new heartcore genre presents, and babes.com was next on my list to join.
Signup is relatively easy, but with the following caveats:
a) signup and cancel is through their own billing, not CCBill etc
b) they are a proponent of the grossly biased $=€=£ regional pricing setup - eg $20 in the US, £20 in the UK, over 50% more, but I am pragmatic and this is avoided with TunnelBear
c) You need to enter a captcha to log in
d) After which they do try to cross-sell to you other sites
But with that in mind, the site is nice, clean and easy to use when you get there.
The site has been around for about a year and updates with one scene daily - both a video and pictures, a setup which I quite like. During my membership this actually changed to 5 per week rather than 7 - but there's still quite a lot of material, about 300 sets & videos with approx 50/30/20 split between couples, solo and girl-girl scenes.
There is the usual browsing by videos, photos and models; and when going into a scene you get:
- For pictures, a browser-based slideshow, and download of approx 100 pics at a fairly respectable 2.5k
- For videos, a responsive streaming player, and downloads in 4 sizes up to 1080p (I went for 720 and they look very good)
Each model/set/video page also has user comments, and you can follow/like them within the site, and - if you are suitably unashamed of your smut proclivities - do so on FB, twitter and the like.
Most models are American, with some popular girls such as Malena Morgan, Lexi Belle and Hayden Winters; and some of the popular European models like Connie and Ariel. Not much ethnic diversity, although there are some nice latina and asian models; but there is a fairly broad range of ages, including some lovely milf-type models like Nikki Daniels and India Summer.
The theme here, as I suggested, is heartcore - like Joymii, X-Art etc, the focus is on couples scenes, but done in a loving, sharing way. The previous reviewer made some good points, but I think was a little unfair in criticising it for not being hardcore enough - you wouldn't join it if you wanted facials, DP and other more typical porn-y content. The scenes are fairly explicit, though, with closeups of penetration and oral sex, so it does deliver on that front.
That said, it's not without its issues. A commenter suggested that this is what Digital Desire would be if it did hardcore - and it's spot on. The girls are beautiful, the scenes are dreamy and idealised, the focus is soft and videos start with mood music, which fades out about a third of the way in to the sounds of the action. (The music is a particular peeve, actually - if you look at the previews, they have some good, brave choices of interesting music; this does not carry over to the actual videos which have more insipid/nondescript soundtracks which they would be better off without).
And, Like Digital Desire, they are fairly formulaic. It's not a bad formula, but most scenes (or at least the couples ones, which I was most interested in) play out the same way; the guy slowly undresses the girl, there's oral from both of them, there's sex with him and her on top. It's good, and well done, but could do with a bit more variety - and ideally, within the constraints of the genre, a bit more raunchiness.
But conversely, they have hung onto some porn tenets that don't really fit the genre. In far too many scenes, the girl ends up naked, apart from the high heels - I quite like heels in a pinup or glam context, but if I'm trying to imagine a realistic encounter, the shoes would definitely go! And similarly, in almost all cases the guy pulls out and finishes on the girl's belly/boobs/ass - again, there's definitely a time and place for a prominent pop shot but it does take away from the believability of the scene. Also see my comment about photoshopping - wholly unnecessary in the genre.
Despite my misgivings, this is still a good site in the heartcore genre and there's plenty of good material. If I were in the US, I would score this maybe 85 or 86; but there is no excuse for their heinous regional pricing policy, which has to cost them at least a couple of points.
But, pricing issues aside, Joymii remains my favourite - they are more creative with scenes, camerawork, and manage a bit more raunch while still being a bit artsy and trendy.
Was a member approx. 1 month prior to this review.
high quality videos
fast download speeds
High quality videos and beautiful girls at a decent price are normally a good thing but if you are looking for hardcore porn like brazzers then I can't suggest babes.com All of the scenes are almost soft core. I watched almost every video available so far and only seen one facial/oral cumshot. a lot of the pop shots are supposedly creampies but there is never any evidence of a cumshot. The camera work sucks hard. They are too busy being artsy fading in and out instead of just focusing on the fucking. They do update often but they are just more of the same boring sex.
"...the site may use any personal information that has been provided by the subscriber or that has been collected by the site about the subscriber for any purpose, including without limitation, technical, administrative, research and development, customer administration, marketing, TRADING OF PERSONAL DATA, age verification, promotional and advertising use by the site or third parties authorized to use the information by the site.
By the subscriber's use of the site, the subscriber expressly agrees that the site may, in its sole discretion SHARE, disclose, transfer, RENT, license or SELL any of the personal information about subscribers that it has gathered or collected with affiliated or unaffiliated third parties."
I saw something similar with Evil Angel as well, which is part of the reason I haven't joined them.
Anyone have experiences with their information getting out, or am I just paranoid?
I signed up for this site (taking care to avoid the heavily biased regional pricing) and overall it's good - I'll review it shortly. However, I just found one odd thing that bothered me.
Watching the videos of Jodi Taylor, she has a prominent birthmark on her thigh, and another smaller one above her pussy. They are part of who she is and do not at all detract from how pretty she is - I'd actually say it enhances it, as not trying to cover them shows a little more personality. But they are both notably absent in the corresponding photo sets - which is kind of jarring, especially as the pictures do not otherwise seem heavily photoshopped.
I'd understand if perhaps she asked for them to be removed, but I'm guessing she's not self-conscious about them otherwise she wouldn't be doing porn in the first place! This is wholly unnecessary and I hope it is not an emerging pattern.
Recent few months the download speed on this site has been real slow.
When I first sign up few months, I was able to download at full speed or at least 80% of my bandwidth (between 800Kb/s to 1MB). But recently, the speed fluctuate between 10Kb/s to 600Kb/s, cant even reach my max speed, very unstable.
I am happy if it can stay constantly around 600Kb/s but this is not the case.
I have check with technical support, they said nothing wrong with their end and blame is my ISP problem but I told them I was able to download at higher speed months ago, but still, they said nothing they can do.
I am pretty sure not my ISP problem as I am able to download other HTTP files with max speed.
After further testing, I found out that only certain hours that the download speed can run constantly, lets said for example between 8am - 10am (GMT+10), the speed looks stable and fast, but after this, the download speed will drop dramatically and fluctuating a lot.
Will not renew the subscription once is expire. Real disappointment.
91 is too low for brazzers. especially if you are giving 93 to a website like RK. Brazzers is superior in every way, from quality of the scenes to more frequent updates and pricing. i'd even say brazerrs is the best hardcore website out there along with 21 sextury. brazzers is one of the websites that moved to HD way earlier compared to others so your comment of "older scenes are in bad quality" is also ridicilous.
Warning of Problems Signing Up - also very limited Trial! When you do
Feel its worth a bit of a warning. I tried to sign up to a 2 day trial. And after clicking submit received a whole page of errors. Was not sure if it went through or not. Received no confirmation email whatsoever. Went to the billing company and put in my details that I had - email, username, CC number. and it errored out saying no subscriptions with these details.
Tried just out of curiosity to signin to the website and I could. I then seen for my two day trial all I can see is 4 videos! and not any 4 vidoes. Four they have chosen for me to see.
Tried to cancel and got through and was offered a Retentions discount of $24.95. Clicked ok. And this errored out too. Was not sure if it went through or not so left it an hour. Went back and nope still trial. Went through the cancellation again and clicked ok to the $24.95 and same error came up.
So went onto the online live chat to complain and was offered 3 months for $39.95. Or the $24.95 for one month. Took out the $39.95 for 3 months.
This is just a warning that. 1. Watch the billing process when you sign up as its currently broken. And 2. That the trial is very limited. Four videos of their choice is pretty poor show.
The distrusting part of me is suspecting all these errors are a trick to get the trial to go past the two days and thus you get charged the full whack. As I got no confirmation emaail whatsoever. And the cancellation process with both the billing company and via the website itself did not work.
I will try out the website for a week or so and maybe post a full on review when I am less annoyed and can be fairer in my opinions.
warning! this website has expired and ; the pictures section have been deleted and the video section and now streaming only and decrease 156 scenes! yes you could not never download the video its a shame!
I'm having problems downloading videos on Brazzers. When attempting to download a video it pauses/freezes or crashes before the download is complete. Sometimes the file is 99.999% complete and it freezes!!! This is very frustrating.
Maybe it's just my computer, or user error on my part. I don't know. But, it is very frustrating. I would appreciate any ideas or suggestions; please advise.
My experience today with Mofos crystallizes why many non-tech people sometimes think tech people live in their own little world.
I go on the Brazzers site today and notice that the portal is different. I go through the portal to Mofos and hardly anything works - I'm clicking around, could every once in a while land on a page with a vid, but there was no way to download anything or look at pictures. I was using IE. I thought. I'll try going straight into Mofos, not through the portal - same thing.
I thought - I'll try Firefox - tried Firefox both ways, same issue. I get onto the chat with a tech person and ask, "What happened to your site? Nothing works."
Response - "We updated it today."
Me - "What kind of an update did you do? It doesn't work! You can't download vids, you can't look at pictures - you turned the site into a piece of junk!"
Response - "It works with Chrome."
So I try it with Chrome - and it does indeed work with Chrome. Is there any big placard on the site telling members - "Our site currently only works with Chrome"?
But there you go - if you can't get anything on the site to work, use Chrome.
Went to brazzers website and seen something that surprised the heck out of me. It was an ad for a mainstream music video. It wasnt an annoyance or anything (wasn't one of those ads that pop up in the middle of the screen which you cant avoid) it was a banner that you can click to play video or scroll past. I personally dont have have any objections to this cause hopefully more income extra/better videos. Hopefully :)
***edit: Maybe i was wrong watched video and seen a girl with brazzers painted on her, maybe its other way around
2/3 of the screen is filled with ad, 50% of the vids are VOD (extra cost) and in the "HD" folder i could not download anything that comes close to HD. Just grainy 854x480@1,5 Mbit.
(download manager also not working by the way)
Advertised on Brazzers with the following lines:
"Factor in unlimited download capabilities, crystal-clear HD,"
"no grainy or jumpy footage, perfectly encoded in high definition"
what where they thinking ?!?
Was a member approx. 1 month prior to this review.
+Alot of content, both picture and video.
+Updated regularly, 13-15 per week the norm.
+Only the hottest and best known girls in the industry.
+Often get girls that are hard to get (Eve Lawrence, Karlie Montana, etc...)
+TRUE HD Video and Pics for most stuff newer than 3 years. Quality before that is good for its time, as well.
+Several video options
+Great site design and navigation
+Search function works fine (despite claims Ive seen to the contrary)
+Ability to favorite scenes and stars you like.
+Offers more niche porn than they have in the past, like Lesbian and DP.
-SEE BOTTOM FOR SCORE CHANGE...
-ABSOLUTELY DREADFUL SITE SECURITY AND CUSTOMER SERVICE. See my comments below for more more info.
-Recently, they have deleted 250 or so scenes with no explanation whatsoever, despite being asked repeatedly.
-Not enough variety in terms of girls. They do get great talent, but tend to shot the same girls over and over and over. They hardly ever shoot any ethnic girls, but thats a problem alot of sites these days have.
-Too much anal these days. If thats your thing...good for you. Im not an anal fan and half of their updates any more are anal scenes.
-Male performers, partouclarly Kerian Lee are overused. He is a good performer, but he doesnt deserve to be shot that much.
-Picture previews on site are awful, because they dont show the whole picture in the preview frame.
-Pre checked sales on sign up page.
So these fuckin incompetent pieces of shit just royally fucked me over.
I told you all about the issues I was having with my login around Christmas. That lasted about a week.
During that time, my account was charged 2.95 several times for live shows, which I dont even like and never watch.
So, after that happened, I contacted Brazzers online, and they told me I would have to take the charges up with my bank.
I did just that. I disputed the charges and was refunded for them.
Tonight,I go to login to my account, and Im told that my membership had expired. I wasnt happy about MORE tech issues, but I contacted them, thinking it would be an easy fix.
Once I do so, they fucking tell me that my membership is cancelled, my money is refunded, but I am banned from Brazzers FOR LIFE!!!!
Now, dont get me wrong, Brazzers can suck my nuts. If they arent going to let me pay for their content...roger that...
What pisses the fuck off is that its THEIR FUCKING UTTER INCOMPETENCE why this happened. THEY are the ones with piss poor security measures and get hacked every month, and THEY are the ones that charged me for things I never bought and THEY are the ones that told me to take it up with my bank. And then they tell me nothing can be done to fix it.
Fuck these assholes. Seriously. Give me my money back and Ill get what I want through other means.
Okay....so, let me just say that I have a storied history with Brazzers. If you ever read my last review...
You would see that I used to be a huge fan. Sadly, shortly after that review was written, my relationship with them went downhill. Here are three incidents that really soured me on Brazzers...
1) Late 2008: I signed up for a year and was charged the right price. The next month I was charged for ANOTHER yearly membership. I contacted their customer service and they kept insisting they had no record my previous membership. So, I disputed it with my bank, and it got cleared up and my money from the 2nd payment was returned. HOWEVER, immediately after that, I was not able to access the site, and customer service told me they still had no record. Again, I had to take it up with my bank, got my money returned, and not long after that, Brazzers contacted me apologizing and offered me a huge discount. It was fucked up, but I figured "why not?"
2) 2009 (forget when exactly): It was right around the time they brought out the "Brazzers Live" shit where you had to pay per minute, and the prices were ridiculous. And to purchase the time, apparently, you just needed an account and clicking "buy time" would automatically take it from your account. No further authorization, just access to the account. So, I wake up one day and find that I was charged $900 by Brazzers. Apparently, my account was hacked, and people just bought time without needing any extra authorization. Long story short, I got it fixed, but Brazzers still gave me the run around.
After my mebership expired, I left and didnt return until November 2012. Then, around Christmas...
December 26, 2012: My account got locked out. Okay...shit happens. I contact customer service, and get it fixed. Half hour later, Im banned again. I contact Brazzers again, rinse and repeat. It happens again shortly after. They continued to insist the problem was on my end and that I should run an antivirus and change my email passwords and shit, but not ONE of my other accounts had any other issues. NOT ONE, and further than that, the last time I had any issues like this was WITH FUCKING BRAZZERS 3 YEARS BEFORE!
Over the course of 5 fucking days, my account was locked out 11 times. There dumbfuck customer service told me the same shit over and over again. It wasnt until the 8th time or so that they finally tried something different and said it wouldnt happen again. But it still did a few times. It finally stopped, but what really pissed me off was the fact that they kept insistenting it was a problem on my end and that I had a fucking keylogger or something. Whats funny, is that Brazzers has been hacked more than once, and supposedly on December 23rd, which happened to be the last time I had logged on before the 26th due to Christmas.
So, there you have it. My disdain with Brazzers isnt their content. Content alone, Id give the site a 90. Its their shady ass business practices. Ive never had these issues with any other site Ive ever joined. Couple everything I just said with the fact that they deleted ALOT of scenes without warning, and they refuse to address why and if they are coming back.
Bottom line: Brazzers is a great site from a pure content standpoint. The biggest downfall is I dont fucking trust then at all. When my membership expires, thats the end of my relationship with Brazzers forever, barring some unforeseen miracle.
Warning about this latest PU Newsletter discount site.
The network looks good, and you get a discount from the PU Newsletter, but that discount could turn out to be VERY expensive. On the join up page scroll down to the small print at the bottom and the pre checked cross selling scam "Get access to MofosReel.com with over 40000+ scenes for only £1.00. After 2 days, the membership renews monthly at £35.00."
Why does the PU Newsletter continually promote sites with pre checked cross selling? Okay I already know the answer to this - money. I know they have to make a profit, but this does not make me feel good about TBP/PU generally.
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