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User : Robare (6)  

Feedback:   All (45)  |   Reviews (3)  |   Comments (4)  |   Replies (38)

Other:   Replies Received (41)  |   Trust Ratings (14)

All Activity A summary of all the feedback from this user.
Shown : 1-25 of 45 Page :    Next Page >

Type Site - Score Feedback / Review Date
Reply
1
Visit Only Cuties

Only Cuties
(0)
Reply of Goldfish's Reply

There are some advantages to using a download manager that can include:
1. the ability to queue up many files for unattended download,
2. the ability to specify alternate target directories,
3. the ability to specify a timeframe during which downloading is allowed, and/or
4. the ability to specify bandwidth usage.
The latter I noticed is a capability of the latest version of IDM. It can be useful when an internet connection is shared among multiple users, or functions, or if one has bandwidth usage limits established by their ISP or the site(s) from which they are downloading.
It's rare that download managers included in browsers are robust. For instance, once a download in progress times out (for whatever reason), the browser-based DM loses everything. A dedicated DM program typically has the capability to resume from the point the previous download was interrupted. There are several features that browser-based DMs have failed to incorporate over the years.


02-19-08  10:25pm

Reply
2
Visit Only Cuties

Only Cuties
(0)
Reply of Davit's Comment

There is a one that is obscurely named Internet Download Manager which has a good set of features. You could give it a look.

02-19-08  10:07pm

Reply
3
Visit Tushy Lickers

Tushy Lickers
(0)
Reply of Davit's Review

Thank-you, sir, for your responses, time, and consideration.

01-20-08  12:42pm

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4
Visit Tushy Lickers

Tushy Lickers
(0)
Reply of Davit's Review

So, are you able to give us the resolution and bitrate figures? If they're MPG or WMV, then that information may be available in Windows Media Player.
Also, from looking at the site's promotional pages, there appear to be, at present, 172 video and photo sets available and they appear to have been updating once a week for at least a year. There are no sample videos or photos (beyond what "right-click, save image as" provides) available. And, I got the impression from reading your review that there were usually two files per update, one where model A is a recipient and one where model B is a recipient, and that each of these files is 6-7 minutes in duration. Can you confirm?
And, of the movies you've seen, are these models actually having orgasms and by anal stimulation alone?


01-20-08  11:14am

Reply
5
Visit Sapphic Erotica

Sapphic Erotica
(0)
Reply of Davit's Reply

I guess I had a slightly different appreciation of the Sapphic Erotica content. I understand and agree that there is a significant difference between raunchy and erotic. I found I also became disappointed with Sapphic Erotica's content because I was seeing too much of what appeared to be faked passion.
It seemed that certain standards had been developed and impressed on the models that they should perform in specific manners rather than simply enjoying the moment. One of the standards could be appreciated as the following: Thou shalt emit a vocalization of "Ouuuu" or "Awwww", then suck in air through your teeth. These shall be repeated throughout your performance regardless of the amount of physical stimulation applied to you by the model(s) with whom you are performing. It is permissible to randomly alternate between the "Ouuuu" and the "Awwww". However, the intensity and pattern with which these sounds are made shall not vary throughout the performance.
Some of their older videos, such as those from the time when Jackie (Nella), Rene, and Peaches were still working for the site, were much more enjoyable as there was an authenticity to their behavior in the videos. One of the reasons why I enjoy the videos of FTVGirls and ALSScan is that the models appear to actually be enjoying themselves, rather than attempting to perform as though they are enjoying themselves. Their enjoyment becomes my enjoyment and, conversely, their labors become my labors and I dislike paying for an opportunity to labor...


01-20-08  10:09am

Reply
6
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of mr smut's Comment

I can't speak for Alex but I'd like to offer some thoughts that may ease your mind a bit when considered. They are largely speculation on my part but are possibly relevant.
The daily update schedule really appears to be more than enough for most.
There is a cost factor for increasing the archive which needs to be managed in order for a company to avoid excessive negative impact. Among the costs are bandwidth for downloading and personnel time to reprocess older videos. As an archive grows, each new member can claim an increasing amount of bandwidth and, therefore, a decreasing amount of profit. It is a business, after all...
New models are making themselves available to appear on the site. Are they supposed to also sit and wait to please you while Alex gets all the older material up to speed and online?
Some models may not desire to have their videos released. Perhaps their life has changed, perhaps they weren't happy with the final product, or perhaps their agreement with Alex was based on the old monthly archiving schedule.
Alex hasn't been asking for exclusivity in the agreements with the models, which I think is a wonderful thing. I expect he probably hasn't been asking for X number of videos, or even X number of video minutes. Models get to show up, have fun, and get on with their lives and I suspect that approach translates into a better product from the "joie de la vie" aspect. Therefore, what has been presented is possibly all that there is to be presented. And, a model might have gone to work with a company that has required an exclusivity agreement and, therefore, isn't available for additional photo and video shoots.
Some models may have agreed to only photo shoots.
I'm fairly sure my list of possibilities isn't comprehensive but is possibly enough to get one thinking that there are other things to consider besides whatever irritation one does to one's self and then chooses to blame on someone else. If not, then I can offer an old indian philosophy that seems to be applicable and is called "kwitcherbitchin". :)
Alex has proved amenable to getting older videos reprocessed and into the release schedule so you could put in a request via the site contact and see what happens.


01-20-08  09:06am

Reply
7
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of Davit's Reply

Ahhh...really...?
If there were any lingering doubts readers might have had concerning the care you take in formulating your opinions, it seems you've eliminated them. You're assistance in confirming your disregard is appreciated. It provides a valuable context for evaluating the qualities of your remarks concerning this site.
You state I sound angry. Regarding the voice you seem to be hearing: you might ask yourself about the qualities of that voice. Is it the voice of a soprano, alto, tenor, or bass? Could it possibly be a gay voice? Whatever the qualities are, I'm pretty sure it is not my voice you are hearing...


01-18-08  06:52am

Reply
8
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of Davit's Reply

Hmmm...above average score...really...and you determined this by reckoning... That almost seems quaint...
I'd say that, based upon the information you've provided, your score is well below average. It's unfortunate you attempted to justify your decision based upon an undefined, unquantified list of sites which you state demonstrate some admittedly undesirable characteristics. However, as ALSScan has demonstrated none of those characteristics, I'd have to say they are irrelevant to the evaluation and using them as a basis for justification is unjustified.
Certainly, if we take a look at the well-defined, well-quantified list of sites which appear in the niche categories assigned by the TBP and PU staff, we'd have to admit your score is well below normal. And, you've more than once commented on how distasteful you find the male voice in the videos. Thus far, there is no reason to disbelieve your scoring of this site was largely motivated by an urge to slam the site and, in particular, the photographer/videographer/owner.
As to your supposed final point, I'm sure there are several readers who can appreciate the contributions of a self-renowned expert in the areas of human female physiology, physiological responses, and fluid production. I know I certainly do... But, I'll suggest that, unless you are in a position to evaluate those fluids with all five of your senses (rather than just the two that can be used with video), you're not well-poised to evaluate the authenticity, although I will admit that faking urination would be rather difficult and pointless...


01-17-08  08:30am

Reply
9
Visit In Focus Girls

In Focus Girls
(1)
Reply of MargulisAZ's Comment

Yeah...and it seems tribbing has dropped off their list as well. You can still find some fisting over at Dirty101, SweetSophieMoone, and, of course, TeachMeFisting, but, fortunately, ALSScan appears to have been coming to the forefront of fisting. It would be nice if they could do the same for tribbing. It seems they have all the necessary ingredients and the recipe...de-furred pussy, add a little oil, do some grinding, shake and bake until well-done... :) Seems like it could make for a tasty treat...but, I guess the best basis determining content is whatever the models enjoy.

01-17-08  06:49am

Reply
10
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of Davit's Review

From your profile:
"I would like to see more negative reviews (not just here - I mean anywhere), as these are just as important as the positive reviews, to warn us when certain sites do not deliver what they promise (and there are LOTS of them). It would be great to have a kind of 'Hall Of Shame' that objectively lists the sites that, for example, have very low-quality movies, or a tiny amount of content, or just don't do what the tour pages promise. I think that would be highly appreciated by potential users."
It seems that in your eagerness to be credited with a negative review, you've managed to post a review that is not to your credit. You failed to meet the criteria you established for a negative review. You preferred to use terms like "lots" rather than quantify. It seems accommodating your sense of irritation and/or lassitude is more important to you than conveying reality.
I disagree with your assessment of the importance of being negative. Positive and negative in this context are terms resulting from subjective evaluations. As such, they are largely irrelevant. Positive and negative reviews are not needed. Truthful reviews are needed. And, it seems the truth about this site suffers a little at your hands. As examples:
1. You cited European girls but failed to cite American girls. Perhaps you failed to discern that American girls appear on the site, or perhaps you failed to perceive any of the American girls as being nice, but you left the reader with the impression that only Europeans appear on the site.
2. It's true that Alex interacts with models from an off-camera standpoint. In photoshoot videos, he's the photographer and it's quite normal for a photographer to give directions to the model. In behind-the-scenes videos, he and the others tend to interact casually and jovially, as one might expect. But, Alex understands that when a model is, or the models are, having sex, his interaction is a distraction and I've yet to see an instance of his speaking during the immediate build-up to, and achievement of, orgasm. It's usual for him to speak with the model during an introduction of a solo sex video and perhaps after the model has finished.
3. You seem to decry falsehood in your porn, yet you gave Sapphic Erotica an 89 and that site has conveyed far more falsities than ALSScan. Witness the preponderance of the seemingly mandatory breathing pattern, the play-acting of passion, and the paucity of wetness.
4. I've seen only one video on the site where the copious amount of fluid produced by the model during sex that might have been peeing. Your description failed to quantify and I suspect there's a good reason for that.
Playing loosely with the facts doesn't make for a good review, positive or negative...


01-13-08  10:20am

Reply
11
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of s1vus1's Review

I just wanted to add a couple of notes. It seemed to me your statement of "if you love pictures Yes its perfect for you, if you like videos theres just no point joining." was rather harsh. Since the site started retaining videos as of April 1st., they've only missed 17 daily updates. And, on a couple of instances, they've provided two videos for a given day. So, really, it's more like they've taken a couple of weeks of vacation which, given that they've a small operation, would seem to be understandable.
As for their old content, it seems to be reappearing. The site owner has proven to be open to user's requests for videos of certain models to be put up on the site. So, if you see a certain model that strikes your fancy, you can drop him an email and ask if he can work your request into the release schedule.
There are, as I write this, at least 270 videos on the site. Of them, there are 69 HD videos that average over 20 minutes in length. As they are staying very close to keeping their promise of daily updates, I'm hard-pressed to understand why you'd say what you said.


01-11-08  10:25pm

Reply
12
Visit FTV Girls

FTV Girls
(5)
Reply of RD41SAB's Reply

I'm sorry you disappointed yourself but it's more than a little disingenuous of you to assign responsibility for that disappointment to anyone else but you. I documented PosterDude's falsehoods but you decided to state his writings as being accurate and you further decided to submit some additional falsehoods of your own, such as:
a.) presenting yourself as being in a position to speak to my set of knowledge without presenting a certificate of clairvoyance awarded to you from an accredited institution,
b.) indicating the quality of their content has remained the same when you previously acknowledged the addition of HD video,
c.) suggested I've attempted to mislead the public when I've brought far more facts about this site to the forum than either you or PosterDude have brought, and
d.) choose to assign an emotional quality to my writing when you've no knowledge of my emotions.
Perhaps you found the phrase "FTVGirls has started releasing videos" and the date and time stamp of my comment a tad too esoteric and, thus, were unable to base your expectations on them. Whatever the reason, you can save yourself the keystrokes in the future and keep your "black is white" arguments to yourself because it appears you and I value credibility differently and I'm not going to waste mine by further discussing you wasting yours.


12-24-07  10:52pm

Reply
13
Visit FTV Girls

FTV Girls
(5)
Reply of PosterDude's Reply

I'm not so concerned with your English. I'm sure you express yourself better in English than I would in your native language, if it's not English. I am concerned, however, with some of your statements, a few of which I found to be false. But, several of your statements are expressions of personal tastes and you have yours and I have mine and so it goes...
In your review, you indicated you thought women were being forced and were unhappy. I have found no evidence of that and I've seen almost all of the video FTVGirls has produced. I look for that because I don't like it either. But, I have not found it on FTVGirls. I have seen several instances when the videographer has accommodated models to permit them to feel more comfortable.
You also stated "Site not first time video because always same models do video for Ronharris and other sites many months before ftv." There are very few models (perhaps 10) who have appeared on both sites. So, your use of the term "always" is incorrect. Frankly, I would be very surprised if 15% of the models who appeared on FTVGirls appeared on some other site before appearing on FTVGirls. Also, RH has had 63 models on his site whereas FTVGirls has had 302 models so it's plain to see that your statement is false.
It's difficult to address the update issue as FTVGirls has a different focus than the vast majority of other sites. Some people here have commented that the lack of daily updates is a detractor. I often get the feeling that this view is based upon the commenter's porn or sexual addiction and an indication of an unrealistic world view. In real life, one doesn't get to have a different partner every day and only for the purpose of sexual gratification, nor should one. Life is, and people are, about much more that mere sexual gratification. I haven't forgotten that the women who appear on these sites are real and unique with personalities, appearances, dreams, and desires of their own and I'm grateful for them sharing part of their lives. Some people are immature jerks who only want to use someone else, or the video of someone else, to get their nut off. I'm not one of them.
As for leap-frogging, the HD presented around the net is typically 1280x720 at 4Mbs. FTVGirls HD is 1440x1080 at 8 Mbs. The viewer now can get approximately 70% more pixels at only twice the bandwidth and that's an improvement worthy of the phrase "leap-frogging".
As for the blurriness of the photos, I understand what you're saying. There's a technique of using a short depth of field to draw the viewers attention to where the focus is sharp. It's a technique that is widely used in video and photography on a wide variety of content. I can enjoy the snapshot photo, where everything is in focus, and I can enjoy the more creative approach. Each photo is a statement, even if every detail is out of focus, and I have found very, very few where that occurred.
I find your review to say more about you than FTVGirls. Thank-you for presenting it.


12-21-07  08:56am

Comment
14
Visit FTV Girls

FTV Girls
(5)

New Format and Download Limit Update

FTVGirls has started releasing videos in HD (1440x1080) at a 8256kbs bit rate in the WMV format. AFAIK, this is the highest resolution available for porn on the net. And, the resultant image is almost like being there... :)
Mind you, this does come at a cost. For instance, the third video release totals a little over 79 minutes in length but is 4,563 MB in size.
I understand the site owner's decision not to go with a full HD resolution (1920x1080). Wide screen monitors (24" or larger) aren't ubiquitous. I'd be interested to learn of the viewing experience of users with 22" monitors (1680x1050) or CRT monitors at 1600x1200.
Should this new format prove, for some reason, to be problematic, users can still get DIVX videos at 352x256 with a bit rate of 64kbs and WMV videos at 720x480 (widescreen) with a bit rate of 3155kbs. It should be noted that the lower rate of WMV videos is an increase over that of previously offered WMV videos at 640x480 with a bit rate of 2079kbs.
Also of interest, the daily download limit has been raised to 15GB.
So, it seems that, once again, FTVGirls has leap-frogged the competition and succeeded in demonstrating it's commitment to providing customers an experience of superior quality.

12-16-07  10:06am

Replies (12)
Reply
15
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of PinkPanther's Reply

I agree ALSScan has been doing a good job of portraying some of the more fun aspects. The most recent Caribbean trip is certainly one of the highlights of the work done thus far. I think the fun level has certainly been increasing over the past months. But, I think there's a slightly different focus between the ALS and FTV sites.
For one thing, FTV is oriented predominantly towards presenting the single female. There are occasional interactions between the model and an associate of the site, such as Allison or Lia. And there is a small percentage of girl-girl work presented. But, every model that appears on that site has the opportunity to be presented in real-world contexts: out at a restaurant, park, countryside, etc., in addition to their sexual activity. And, I think the limitation on the amount of girl-girl on FTV has been almost exclusively due to the desires of the models, who are almost all amateurs.
A majority of ALS models are still only presented in their sexual activities. I can say, though, that ALS has been making improvements in this area. And, as for their girl-girl work, it has been largely centered around a core group of girls. This does not tend to diminish the enjoyment of the work for most, and it does tend to increase the fun level due to the dynamics of familiarity between the models. But, that's something FTV is not as well poised to capitalize on as the focus of the site is predominantly amateurs and not the well-ensconced models such as Nella, Jana, Faith, and Carli.
I used the term "improvement" and it's a subjective usage. Some are going to prefer only sexual presentations but I prefer a more well-rounded presentation. Still, I recognize DivBZero gave an honest (if largely subjective) review and, by that I mean, didn't resort to presenting falsehoods in his review. I wish I could say the same about some others on here.


10-19-07  10:57am

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16
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of DivBZero's Review

WHAT??? Someone awarded fewer points than I did?!?!? Where's that auto-distrust button?!? :)
Besides, why would you think someone would get mad at you? You are what you are, an illegal operation. I suppose one could blame the programmer, if one must, but you owe your existence to a shoddy code review for which you cannot be faulted. :)
Some sites appeal to some and not to others. What appeals at one point in life can be different than what appeals at another. At least you avoided my current pet peeves so thanks for your input.


10-18-07  04:16pm

Reply
17
Visit Teens Garden

Teens Garden
(0)
Reply of jd1961's Comment

This site definitely has that galitsin-news flavor. I was sorry to see it go. It seemed like the site was really beginning to come into it's own some months before it was shut down. It wasn't strictly a porn site, as the videos and photos showed activities other than just sex. There was more of a "la vraie vie" attitude reflected in the site.
And, I'm sorry to read about Galitsin. It seemed the girls enjoyed working with him. There doesn't seem to be much news concerning his fate on the net. I'll hope there will be good news to come in the near future.


10-11-07  10:20am

Reply
18
Visit FTV Girls

FTV Girls
(5)
Reply of Monahan's Comment

When last I went for a bulk download, the site's 5 GB/day download limit was in effect. I don't know if you've got a download manager installed but one that permits you to limit your downloads by amount over time could be handy. If you were to go for the whole collection, it would take you well over 50 days to grab it. But, it could save you some time and facilitate your file grouping, particularly if it integrates well with your browser.
Enjoy.


10-02-07  09:21pm

Reply
19
Visit FTV Girls

FTV Girls
(5)
Reply of jd1961's Review

You know, I just don't get people dinging a site for being what the site advertises itself to be. A site that advertises itself as presenting certain content, then fails to present that type, quantity, or quality of content, should get dinged. But, on the first tour page of FTVGirls is a collection of 161 update cover pages. In none of them is a male featured. In fact, nowhere on the site is heterosexual activity advertised. In none of the reviews of that site on this site is there a statement affirming heterosexual activity being presented on that site. It seems to me any reviewer dinging a site, for not being what it never said it would be, is being just as stupid as a person who goes out and buys a carton of milk and then complains that the milk isn't orange juice. It seems that one claiming to be jaded might have accrued adequate experience to distinguish the nature of the content of a website prior to purchasing. That would seem to be particularly so when the website has done a very comprehensive job of representing it's content on it's tour pages. And, it seems that one, having availed themselves of such information, would be well positioned to avoid disappointing themselves. But, then again, perhaps all is not what it seems...

10-01-07  12:20pm

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20
Visit Dirty 101

Dirty 101
(0)
Reply of nadiencendia's Review

So, I'm curious...how often is this site updating, how many updates are kept on the site, and what size are the videos?

09-19-07  09:49am

Reply
21
Visit FTV Girls

FTV Girls
(5)
Reply of Monahan's Comment

Thus far this year, FTVGirls has been updating an average of every 5.4 days. That's totaled up to 72.3 hours of video, or an average of an hour and 28 minutes/update. A site that updates every day with an average of 15 minutes/update would get you an hour and 21 minutes in the same period. Of course, the comparison falls a little short as not every FTV model has 5.4 orgasms/update.... :)

09-18-07  11:19pm

Reply
22
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of HeatherMcXxx's Reply

You may notice that a change has been effected in your review. The reason, so far as I can determine, was a choice in terminology deemed to be slanderous. I've seen no reason to doubt their 2257 compliance. And, it's peculiar to me that you went there.
I remember reading, not to long ago, about a man in Texas who'd run afoul of the law on child pornography charges, or perhaps the law ran afoul of him. I remember that the criteria under the Texas law was cited in the article as being, essentially, at the judge's discretion, i.e., the prosecution didn't actually have to have proof that the model was underage. The judge could find the person guilty based upon the appearance of the model. I remember thinking that the state of Texas didn't need to know what it was talking about in order to condemn a person. I remember thinking that, based on the criteria cited in the article, the woman I was involved with at the time would have been classified as underage. The problem with that classification, however, would have been that she was 43 y/o at the time.
There are women in the world who would not fit the stereotypical porn actress mould but who are lovely and sexy, nevertheless. A presumption concerning the mental processes of masses of unknown individuals can become an actionable opportunity for misadventure and, at the very least, is irresponsible. Clairvoyance does not have legal standing and for several good reasons, some of which date back at least as far as the Salem witch trials. Perhaps effecting circumspection will come to be viewed as a desirable trait? We can but hope...


09-13-07  07:15am

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23
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of HeatherMcXxx's Reply

I'm thinking I might extend my apologies in advance. There are two models with similar names and appearance, Dori and Dorina. I don't see any recent updates for either of them, though. I suppose it could be some consolation that you did have at least one very cute classmate, though. But, I suspect you may have to deliver your approbations personally as I've no plans for going to Budapest. Sorry... :)
There is one video example of Nella and Liv available on the site as I write this. Others would be available on the ALS DVD site.
So, if you've not been a member in over a year, then it seems you've missed the whole 1280x720 thing and the latest trip to the Caribbean. I think there's some good material on the site now although, if you're finding you're enjoying tickling your idiosyncrasies over at nubiles, you may want to wait a bit before returning to check it out (that is, should you ever feel so inclined). There is a broader range of models and material on video over there so I certainly could understand how one might be attracted to it.
In any case, be well.


09-12-07  10:07am

Reply
24
Visit ALS Scan

ALS Scan
(1)
Reply of HeatherMcXxx's Review

I appreciate the fact that you've spent some time on the site. And, I appreciate the fact that you took some time to write a review. I guess what bothers me about what you wrote is something I've seen in several reviews. When I've surveyed a site, I've usually found they are what they advertise themselves to be. As such, criticizing them for being what they said they'd be seems more than a tad peckish... It seems childish, really, if the main criteria is the review writer's variance in level of interest. I mean, the site's content doesn't vary in quantity or quality from what was promised but perhaps the writer fantasized about the experience and then realized the fantasy had become passé. The writer then seems to blame the site for not tracking his/her changes in taste...which seems, at the very least, an unrealistic expectation...but, I blame it on the parents who foolishly let their progeny think that pouting is persuasive... :)
I do agree that the daily stuff can be repetitive, though. But, orgasms enjoyed on a regular basis can be viewed as repetitive, though I suspect we tend to be forgiving on that count...
I'm wondering, based on what you wrote, if you had a chance to see any of the videos with Nella and Liv. There's been some pretty erotically charged moments between them captured in video. I think Nella may have proposed taking her back to Czech Republic. Come to think of that, though, that's not entirely unusual... I think Nella's proposed marriage to a couple of the other girls on that site as well. She does love the considerate fist, it seems, and then there's the things we say in the heat of the moment... :)
In any case, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and I hope you find what you're looking for.


09-11-07  09:40pm

Reply
25
Visit FTV Girls

FTV Girls
(5)
Reply of Monahan's Comment

I agree that there are other sites that give more updates. I just took a scan of FTVGirls updates for the previous month and I found that the site provided a little over 10 hours of video. In the same time, infocusgirls provided almost 4 1/4 hours of video while updating every other day. And, ALSScan, a site that updates every day, provided a little over 9 1/4 hours of video. You may get fewer models and updates/month with FTVGirls but I've noticed that most sites tend to pull from a small pool of models over a long period of time. For instance, in the month of August infocusgirls presented 14 models and FTVGirls presented 6. In the past four months, Infocusgirls 32, FTVGirls 22. And, for year to date, infocusgirls 48 and FTVGirls 43. You can see from the trend that, in the long run, you're likely to see more models/year on FTVGirls than on infocusgirls and more than twice the video. Perhaps it's not such a bad bargain after all?

09-05-07  12:30pm


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