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10-30-14  08:04am - 23 hrs RIP Jack Bruce (4 Posts) - #4
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Originally Posted by Drooler:

Surely she couldn't have "asked for it."


No more than Muhammed Ali is asking to get punched in the face.

"He can't just spend his life fighting people in the ring and not expect any consequences. He has profited off the glorification of violence in society. He's clearly partly to blame when people come up to him in the street and want to fight; he's made a living off encouraging and simulating that. I'm not saying it's right for an old man to get hurt, just that he brought it on himself if it happens. Especially if he's wearing shorts."

10-30-14  07:54am - 23 hrs Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #45
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The market is saturated with models, shooters, studios, affiliates, and publishers. It's a pretty saturated market all around; so the competition is going to be fierce no matter how you step into it. That it's hopeless to start, though, or that no new professionals are successfully entering the industry.

At careers.abbywinters.com we've got a posting for contract shooters; you'd be surprised how few serious applicants we get (granted we require exclusivity, albeit whilst paying higher rates). While it's true there's a million guys with good cameras and hot girlfriends around, their professionalism is often below par, and their skills aren't quite as good as they think they are. We provide (required) training in our style and technical standards via learn.abbywinters.com, and applicants flat out refuse to do it- they think they're above it.

With dedication, professionalism, and skill, I'd say it's very realistic to aspire to making one's way as a shooter (or most things, really). If we want to look at the 'easiest' job to get in adult, once you have the skills, then that would have to be web developer. Getting the skills is the trick, though.

10-29-14  03:36am - 2 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #43
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Originally Posted by LPee23:


My goal would be to do memorable shoots with attractive models and make my priorities top technical quality as well as composition. Beyond that, the rest is details.

My recommendation would be to look into becoming a freelance shooter. You'll need equipment and skills, but you'll have discretion, creative control, and the chance to build a reputation for excellent content.

Stefan Soell is an example of a well known photographer who contributes scenes to femjoy. Petter Hegre is a photographer who started his own site (with a focus on high quality erotic photography).

10-28-14  06:49am - 3 days Who's the current porn 'It' girl? (31 Posts) - #31
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Originally Posted by turboshaft:

...I wish there were more of these with current or recently former performers, instead of the litany of melodramatic horror stories of people who turned against the industry...


A friend of mine, not a model but an escort, calls this 'tragedy porn'. Mainstream conservative moralists get off on the tragedy wicked people have to endure, under the guise of caring and empathising. She's a successful, educated, happy, healthy, and professional escort; in her line of work there are quite a few social workers and charities on patrol looking out for 'at risk' girls (who are definitely there, and have real problems). These people have all the time in the world to talk about abusive pimp boyfriends, deadbeat dads, lost faith, and drug abuse- but the second they meet a well adjusted, happy, and successful sex worker, they just shut down to the point of hostility.

Clear headed, professional adult work is antithetical to the moralist narrative they peddle. That's why there's not more of these cool interviews of which you speak.

10-28-14  06:40am - 3 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #40
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TVFR raises a good point. A pretty solid shot at making porn, for a profit, on the downlow, would be to become a contract shooter for an established site. The obstacles to that would be:

(a) Getting all the required equipment.
(b) Getting good enough at it to meet professional standards.
(c) Recruiting models.
(d) Finding buyers for shoots you make.

10-24-14  03:10am - 7 days Sites Not Listed On "The Best Porn" (695 Posts) - #732
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My 2 cents: it's up to the industry to come up with a business model compatible with the harsh realities of the internet. Relying on the noble spirit of the public to do the right thing, or fighting the nature of the internet itself, isn't a sustainable strategy.

Most likely we'll see a transition away from traditional studio paysites, into the next, more-viable business model. Just like the shift from magazines to VCR, to DVD, to online paysites.

10-24-14  03:04am - 7 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #35
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You can do it with lower overheads if you want to give up independence and moneymaking potential. Like having an nsfw tumblr, for instance; plenty of folks build quite a fandom by posting quality amateur content there, and can subsequently convert a bit of that to some pocket money with the right auxiliaries.

Nothing like big porn money, though.

10-24-14  03:01am - 7 days Who's the current porn 'It' girl? (31 Posts) - #24
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Originally Posted by pat362:


Again the correct term is was a big deal. Stoya is part of a very small group of performers who was able to sign a long term contract with Digital Playground but unlike most of their other performers. She was a lot more open to doing the more hardcore types of porn. It didn't hurt that she was not your proto blonde, large breasted girl but a waif like ivory skinned with deep dark hair girl. Sadly like most post-contract performers. She didn't do a whole lot once her contract came due. These days I think she lives on the East Coast and does non-porn related stuff.


My favourite thing about her was how she rocked the 'sexy nerd' thing; she was damn clever, articulate, and had a lot of interesting and well developed opinions on a lot of topics. Reminds me of the kind of girls I normally get involved with.

10-24-14  02:57am - 7 days Site recommendations (6 Posts) - #2
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I know you've said we're a little too softcore before, but we do have 40-odd Girl-Boy scenes between real-life couples (and release one every month), as well as hundreds of hardcore girl-girl scenes. Most of all, we check every one of the other boxes you listed.

Just sayin...

10-23-14  02:55am - 8 days Who's the current porn 'It' girl? (31 Posts) - #19
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Not sure if it's just my perspective, or if she's actually prominent in the mainstream, but Stoya seems to be a bit of a big deal.

10-23-14  02:49am - 8 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #33
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All good points, but that's why I included the caveat 'if money's not the focus'. If you're interested in self-publishing some porn for the love of it (or anything, for that matter), it's never been easier to do - everything from hosting, to web design, to payment processing has been highly developed into free-or-cheap uncomplicated prepackaged services.

If you want to launch a competitive, profit-orientated site, it's never been harder. The market is saturated with big players, innumerable small fish, free promotional content, and pirated content. I wouldn't recommend it as a commercial venture, but mean to say that it's very achievable as a passion project.

10-23-14  02:40am - 8 days Anyone have experience with devices that allow you to play files on a TV? (25 Posts) - #25
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I've gotta say you can't beat an HDMI cable with a wireless keyboard and mouse. All three cost peanuts, and you eliminate all the headache of moving files between devices, format issues, and DRM- you're literally just using your TV as your computer monitor.

Not an option if your TV doesn't take HDMI, but if your TV doesn't take HDMI it's not likely to look much better than your computer screen anyway.

If your computer is too far away from your TV, you could use a laptop. Alternately, if you're feeling like a fun DIY project, you could make your own media device using a raspberry pi (tiny, credit-card-sized, barebones computer that goes for $35)

10-22-14  05:39am - 9 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #29
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The proliferation of cheap and free out of the box solutions, and skilled labour. In the past, to make a paysite you had to make it, from scratch. Content management systems, download servers, user account management, integration with a third party biller. Most likely you'd need the help of some experts, and they weren't as plentiful back then (read: expensive).

Nowadays there's a well documented API, and open source software package (with free community support), a rentable CDN, affordable experts available on contract from vetted and accountable agencies, and more.

While this makes starting a site even with little-to-no capital, knowledge, or time is easier than before - it also means lots of people have done it (meaning it's not the booming racket it once was, the days of overnight millionaire porn king pins are gone). The proliferation of micro-sites is insane, because the overheads are negligible. It's not unusual for a relatively no-name model to have her own site, they're not in the big bucks, and they typically don't come from a web development background.

Still, with persistence, it's still very achievable to pull together a small site, focussed on a very specific niche, that runs at a modest profit (the overheads are just so low).

The other option is to forget the hard slog to establish and sustain a small site, and just contribute content on a pre-existing platform. There are a number of sites that essentially offer a no-expertise required paysite in a box; you just put your content up and they handle the rest (taking a cut, of course). Live cam sites aren't too far from this either- they've built the streaming porn infrastructure, and traffic flow, you just get in front of a camera and get naked.

Then there's stuff like tumblr, and the nsfw realms of social media, where you can give content away in return for attention and perhaps fandom. Lots of people from the last group do this to build a following, which they then try to direct to their camshows, panty store, or hosted paysite to monetise. Lots of people just post homemade adult content on social media sites for fun, without setting out to make a buck out of it (nothing wrong with that either). That final option is by far the quickest and easiest way to publish some online porn, if money isn't a priority.

10-21-14  04:16am - 10 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #27
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On the positive side, it's never been easier to start your own site. That's a detriment when it comes to the immediate profitability, but if money's not the primary focus, it's more than realistic to aim for creating great content and building a following.

In fact, you may consider using a platform like tumblr, possibly in tandem with a micro-paysite to monetise any hardcore fanbase you might build.

10-16-14  04:50am - 15 days Sites Not Listed On "The Best Porn" (695 Posts) - #721
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Thanks for adding Khan, and for the review Jook!

10-15-14  09:09am - 15 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #16
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Originally Posted by Parsnip:


Those rates quoted above for Kink seem high to me. I guess even today with the dead porn market they are so brutal and violent that they have to pay more.

10 years ago the going rate was $800 for a single straight scene, $1200 including anal. Now you would be lucky to get 1/3 of that.

The girls in Eastern Europe have it worse. They get paid 300 euros ($350) for a nominal half day shoot - 4 hours shooting however long it takes to set up. For that they have to take everything thrown at them, with a queue of guys with jacked-up boners doing scene after scene, 20-30 minutes to shoot each. If the pain gets too bad they just have to stick an anaesthetic in their ass and carry on - no finish, no pay.

Many porn consumers are mysoginists and like it that way. Many more have so little emotional intelligence that they have convinced themselves that the fixed grin on the girl's face as she takes the third cock up her ass means she is enjoying it. She isn't. Most of the time, however desperate they are, one shoot is enough.

As I said before, my wife's sister did porn for 2 weeks, several years ago, and she is still paying for it. Really, it isn't a business to get into.


While I don't doubt that the worst examples exceed this dreary account, it's not at all the standard. Sites like ATK, Met Art, and Hegre-Art pay Eastern European models no less than Western European models, and treat them fine (they are all solo erotica sites, however). The preference for Eastern European models on a lot of sites arises because the fixed rate for a scene is more attractive in Eastern European countries (€500 goes a lot further in Bucharest than it does in London). Additionally, I've heard photographers saying Eastern European models are easier to work with; punctual, professional, and so on. Finally, for some reason, they're more often of the body type glamour sites favour (slender and delicate).

We don't shoot a lot of Eastern European models at abbywinters.com (because we're not in Eastern Europe and all of our content is exclusive and shot in-house). That said, Eastern European models have on occasion come to us; we paid them the same rate we would any other model, and were as respectful as usual.

As for rates, we can't disclose specifics, but out models earn hundreds of Euros per shoot (how many hundreds depends on how explicit the shoot is). Ordinarily models who shoot for us do a string of shoots all in one go over the course of a week or two; providing they are up for girl-girl and/or girl-boy, they might walk away with a couple of grand. As an amateur site, though, we don't have ongoing 'porn-stars' on the site; for most of our models, appearing on our site is a short walk on the wild side with a tidy sum for something fun.

10-14-14  04:47am - 17 days Keeping involvement in porn quiet (45 Posts) - #11
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Hrm, you've got competing priorities here. The more successful you are producing porn, the more likely it will be that your alter ego will be stumbled upon by someone you know.

10-10-14  05:38am - 21 days Sites Not Listed On "The Best Porn" (695 Posts) - #713
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I came across an Australian-themed site the other day, aussieass.com. I often like to use TBP/PU to gather a bit of intel and get a gist of what a site's about, but these guys aren't listed on either.

10-09-14  08:04am - 21 days Do they have a list of site have chinese traffic? (9 Posts) - #9
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lol, good luck mate. Most serious paysites don't sell ad-space (it shits of the members, who rightly feel that by paying they needn't have to deal with ads). Not sure about Brazzers specifically, but as one of the biggest studios out there, if the do sell adspace it's not going to be cheap.

Perhaps GFY would be a better place for this line of questioning? It's an affiliate discussion board, just google 'GFY affiliates' and you should find it.

10-08-14  10:09am - 22 days The Way You Get Internet Porn is About to Change (46 Posts) - #46
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I'd love to visit USA in person to experience these freedoms, but I'm a little intimidated by the closed borders, invasive TSA, and the fact that it has the world's second highest incarceration rate (ahead of Russia, China, Iran, all of the Middle East, and all of Africa! My home country isn't even in the top 100).

But you're right, this isn't the place. I'd like to reply on-topic, but in both my home country and the country I'm living in right now, prostitution is legalised and regulated. So again, I'm unable to relate due to not being a free American.

10-07-14  03:20am - 24 days The Way You Get Internet Porn is About to Change (46 Posts) - #43
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Well I'm not American, but I must disagree, Cybertoad. The American Constitution is a landmark document in the history of democracy and political rights, but it's not inviolable. After all, they are called 'amendments' - 'changes' of which many have been applied, and will continue to get applied. There is a rigorously controlled system to amend the constitution, and that is how all the amendments got there in the first place. For instance, the 13th amendment was added to the constitution to abolish slavery, after the civil war. The most recent amendment was added in 1992. 10 amemndments were added in the last 100 years, of which one was responsible for prohibition (and was later repealed).

My point is that in the American system of government, the constitution isn't a holy document of unbreakable commandments. It is normal and acceptable for amendments to get added and repealed, and sensible systems govern that process.

More to the point, repealing or elaborating upon the second amendment wouldn't threaten the first amendment any more than any of the other many changes to the constitution did. They are entirely separate amendments about unrelated topics.

Finally, it's my understanding that the mainstream anti-gun position in the US is not actually focussed on repealing the second amendment so much as enforcing it (specifically, the part about only have the right to bear arms as part of a well regulated militia).

10-03-14  05:00am - 28 days The Way You Get Internet Porn is About to Change (46 Posts) - #40
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It's pretty simple, I think; if the FCC doesn't pull their finger out and reclassify the internet as a common carrier, then Verizon TWC and Comcast will eventually succeed in eliminating net neutrality. This will turn the internet into a glorified cable service.

In America.

Currently, America is undoubtedly the hub of the internet. If net neutrality crumbles there, the internet will still be 'free' everywhere else, and we'll just see a migration of focus, probably to the EU (which already boasts faster average speeds and superior infrastructure anyway). Additionally, the multilayered regulatory environment of the EU makes it exceptionally harder for plutocrats to hijack.

10-02-14  02:53am - 29 days Foreign sites (14 Posts) - #11
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Check out ishotmyself.com, they're a great 'indy' site, and friends of ours.

10-01-14  02:29am - 30 days Foreign sites (14 Posts) - #7
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Cheers for that, Khan; I had no idea.

Even despite this French review site, I'm dubious as to whether there are going to be many significant sites that offer exclusive content, not to the US market. It'd just be a weird business choice; the US market is huge and accessible. The language barrier doesn't explain it, either. English is just so widespread, particularly amongst web developers and coders (because programming languages and internet standards sort of lean on English as an assumed basis).

09-30-14  09:15am - 30 days Foreign sites (14 Posts) - #5
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I know of a french porn review site, not sure if linking to it is kosher, howerver. Shoot us an email at abby@abbywinters.com and I'll shoot you back a link.

09-26-14  05:07am - 35 days What was your favorite scene or porn star you watched today ? (7 Posts) - #8
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Originally Posted by graymane:


Just let me seize on this moment to deliver a belated, but all-important collection of fact that I feel bears our keen attention, appreciation, and certainly generous recognition of the out-pouring good fortunate bestowed upon PU website, and particularly our beloved forum.......
And for those who haven't gathered, The subject of whom I'm pleased to address associated with the above honors is non-other than our AWpress.
Based on my personal observation ....
The participants/owners behind this name have been a cornucopia of vital, educational and informative data from inside the industry as well as their personal touch on addressing our porn related issues.
A hardy bow and tip of the hat to you, AWpress for your generosity and presence to our close nit community.

Thanks for the kind words, Graymane; that's high praise coming from such a well regarded and longstanding community member.

09-26-14  05:03am - 35 days The PU forum is now emoji-powered! (13 Posts) - #4
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👌 Nice.

09-24-14  04:49am - 37 days What was your favorite scene or porn star you watched today ? (7 Posts) - #2
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Hrm, well by virtue of working at a porn studio, most of the porn I see hasn't been released yet. That said, I did see a great girl-boy scene that just got released today. Gisela and Henk are a real life couple, so their scene was very sweet and playful- lots of kisses and smiles.

09-24-14  04:45am - 37 days 18 only girls X Wow Girls (12 Posts) - #12
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You said it, Cybertoad, the economic pinch squeezes especially hard on luxuries. While we're not barnstorming like we used to, we're still going strong- we'll be waiting for you at the other side!

Back to OP- other sites that do good girl-girl and solo content; femjoy.com/joymii.com/nutabu.com. All sister sites, slightly different flavours, all great. Femjoy is very softcore solo erotic photography, joymii is more porny and hardcore (and features girl-girl and girl-boy), nutabu is... hard to describe- globetrotting gonzo smut, I guess.

09-23-14  02:30am - 38 days 18 only girls X Wow Girls (12 Posts) - #10
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Thanks for the feedback on price guys. Having a hefty pricetag like ours does put us above the price point of some potential customers, but there is a practical element to it as well - we shoot 100% exclusive content, in-house; we train all of our own shooters, prospect our own genuine amateur models (i.e. no casting agencies), shoot our own scenes, and edit them in house. In the traditional sense, we're a 'studio'. A lot of the bigger sites outsource all of that; the models, the shooters, the editors, even premade imagesets and videos are often bought a budget prices from 3rd party contractors. This is cost effective, but it does result in unreliable quality, and a 'samey' flavour that comes with a loss of creative control.

The proposition of competing with aggregator sites like these on the basis of price is a hopeless one. If we try that with our current model, we'd just fail. The alternative would be to become more like them, drop member rates, and loosen up on the exclusivity and creative control to hire external contractors (not necessarily an awful idea). We weighed it up (and took in a lot of feedback), and decided to go the other way- specialise in our niche, focus on making great content in our own style, and essentially be a costlier premium 'boutique' studio site. It doesn't do us favours as far as capturing the mass market (we'll leave that to Brazzers), but we are a hit with afficionados of the niches to which we cater.

09-19-14  05:28am - 42 days 18 only girls X Wow Girls (12 Posts) - #4
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If it's lesbian and solo girl stuff you like, you might be a fan of our site. The flavour is a little different; mostly very youthful and happy models, but no make-up, airbrushing, or fake-ness.

Here's our review on TBP.

09-17-14  06:54am - 44 days Usenet (21 Posts) - #21
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Grr. Predatory billing practices like that suck.

09-12-14  04:06am - 49 days Usenet (21 Posts) - #15
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I don't look back on this era with too much nostalgia, but one thing that I think we cold really bring back is how computing came with a basic level of DIY programming and even electronics. I think it'd be good to bring that stuff into the basic high school curriculum (e.g. Ok guys, here's a raspberry pi each; attach these LEDs to it, and write a program to control how they flash).

09-11-14  09:58am - 49 days Usenet (21 Posts) - #11
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My first computer was an Amstrad; the thing took cassette tapes, and it's OS was a console that only accepted commands in BASIC. If you wanted to play a game, and you didn't have the cassette, then you literally had to type out the source code in BASIC.

Classic.

09-09-14  10:18am - 51 days Usenet (21 Posts) - #7
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Usenet, lol.

09-04-14  07:36am - 56 days When age is drying up your creative juices, who'ya gonna call? (16 Posts) - #17
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Because he's the hero Pornusers deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Mod.

09-04-14  07:30am - 56 days the danger of cloud based systems (19 Posts) - #12
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Originally Posted by biker:


I finally bought a new computer game after ten years of playing my favorites and wanting something new. To my surprise, I have to be part of a client server called Steam. Now any member can see everything I do with the game. How well I play and how often.

We live in a strange new world, now that we have the internet. You give up some of your privacy the minute you enter this vast universe. Friends and family want me to join one of those social networks, but your not just sending your thoughts to a few friends, but to the whole world. That is not what I want. I like my life kept private. Might as well live in a glass house.


Steam raises a good counterpoint; this is a non-invasive, generally ethical piece of cloud software (I'd say). By that, I mean, they don't have misleading or predatory terms and practises, and don't use the software as a bait and switch to load up your computer with DRM and malware (like aforementioned real player). Rather, it is a pretty straight forward, what-you-see-is-what-you-get cloud games market - they let you buy games, hosting your user profile in the cloud. The main benefit of that is having your games collection bought and paid for, stored online- on a different computer you can log in as yourself, and have access to your games and save files. Pretty cool. The downside, for some, is that you play in a public space.

That said, having a public profile on a service like steam is not too different from eating at a cafe in town. Everyone can see you, what you ordered, what you eat, what you don't eat, and how fast you eat it. Nobody cares, though, because there are millions of people eating in public every day, and it's just not remarkable. So it is with steam; why should a stranger care to view your profile amongst millions? Why should you care that they might? What about someone you know? How would they find your profile?

This returns me to the idea that in the internet age, privacy only exists when you actively create it. In the case of a steam example, you would want to register an account from a unique email address, and keep it's details hidden (refuge in anonymity). Or, buy your games off good old games (gog.com) which is not 'in the cloud'.

The internet is becoming more and more like the mall, and less like the wild west. This isn't all bad; it's more convenient and bountiful, and the culture is a little more civil. Unlike the mall, though, it's still totally acceptable for you to walk around in a balaclava, if that's what you want to do.

09-03-14  04:34am - 58 days Another moratorium. (19 Posts) - #13
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Originally Posted by turboshaft:


That would be a lot of testing, especially given how often some performers could be shooting, though it would be better than nothing, and certainly better than the current monthly testing regimen. But it still wouldn't be foolproof. "False positives," like the one in this recent moratorium, only make people stop shooting and take a few extra, if temporary, precautions.

"False negatives," on the other hand, could lead to a lethal sense of good health, since the window period for enough HIV antibodies and antigens to develop could be too long for a test to detect them. And it's why AIDS/HIV has become a global pandemic; though ultimately deadly, it works so slowly that it allows for a lot of transmission before it can even be detected with a test, much less show symptoms.

Sadly, the bottom line is no matter how risky porn will be for its performers health-wise it will always be in enough demand to justify those risks. And while I enjoy the occasional boy-girl scene but would be fine with my favorite performers doing only solo or girl-girl (though even those are still risky, especially given how hardcore they have progressed in recent years), I know this just isn't a workable reality for most performers.

It's going to take a cultural change within the industry; primarily to step away from unprotected, or possibly all, "outside work," whether it's called escorting or "private scenes." And maybe to even expect a certain amount of monogamy in their private sexual lives generally, especially if they wish to work more than a few months and avoid the risk of shortening their lives as well.

Maybe I'm asking too much, but I really hope not.

You make a fine point on the risk of false negatives. Overall it's a real catch 22.

I will note, though, that models' private sex lives are a far greater risk than potential escorting work. Professional escorts, where such work is legal, tend to be very health conscious (their livelihood depends on it, after all). Much more so than those partaking in casual sex/pickups/dating, which is where I think the real risk lies.

09-03-14  04:27am - 58 days Another moratorium. (19 Posts) - #12
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Originally Posted by pat362:


That is possibly the most polite way I've heard someone describe the escorting most of the performers now do on a regular basis. I know that 30 years ago performers did the same thing but life was very different than it is today and the total number of performer was quite small when compared to today. Not to mention that everyone knew each other so there was a certain amount of respect among the talent and the various companies that I don't believe exist today.
That wasn't my intended implicationl I meant their private sex lives. I can't speak for the industry as a whole, but for the models on our site, the overwhelming majority don't do any escorting, or stripping. Granted we're an amateur site. Really, though, these three different kinds of sex work offer vastly different things that generally appeal to different people with different priorities.

Porn - pays well, infrequent work, lots of control/safety, prearranged partners and posing levels, very public/indiscreet.

Escorting - pays very well, frequent work, no prior knowledge of partners or sex acts, very discreet.

Stripping - pays ok, frequent work, no sex required, somewhat discreet, reasonably controlled/safe.

Speaking in huge generalisations here, but overlaps aren't as common as one might expect, and if anything there's often a bit of attitude between these different varieties of sex work (it's easy for each type to look down upon the other two).

Originally Posted by pat362:

Not sure if this is imposed but it was strongly advised that talent be tested every two weeks and I believe cost is about 185$ for the works. Seeing as some test have a 7 to 10 day period to be truly accurate than a two week test is more an illusion than a reality.
I'm not familiar with the industry-wide standards. Our models are considered 'in test' for 4 weeks after the test, but they generally only shoot once or twice, shortly after getting tested. We don't have 'full timers', so to speak.



Originally Posted by pat362:

I don't believe that current technology allows for a truly accurate same day test and therefore doing that will be a waste of money. I believe forcing studios to pay for the test was one of the things AB1576 was going to accomplish but since the industry didn't want it than the performer is still the one fronting the bill. Good luck getting the government to pay for a test when the industry doesn't want government involvement in the first place.
Well, my suggestion was more that the government just offer free testing for everyone, and that the industry could then use that service.

Originally Posted by pat362:

Not sure what the tax laws are in the States but unless studios can deduct the cost of the test from their income taxes than even the big guys would be in serious trouble. In fact the bigger studios would be in bigger trouble if only because they shoot a lot more porn and hire a lot more performers.
Ah yep, good point. Even with tax deduction, it does increase the overheads, reducing overall liquidiy- I'm no bean counter, though.

09-03-14  04:15am - 58 days Another moratorium. (19 Posts) - #11
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Originally Posted by Cybertoad:


^^^^^

How much does an average test cost, this would help others to understand the who process cost wise.


CT


It really depends on the location, the clinic, and the specific arrangement. With a regular clinic with which there exists a negotiated arrangement, it can quite cheap (less than a hundred bucks)- but that's only good if the shoot, the model, the location all fit into the terms of that arrangement/schedule.

For a one-off, it can be a few hundred bucks.

09-03-14  04:04am - 58 days Has anybody watched the recent Maddy O’Reilly scene at Brazzers? (5 Posts) - #6
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They ought to get pay-per-scene, to capture potential sales like you guys; unwilling to subscribe, but interested in a specific scene.

09-02-14  07:48am - 58 days Happy Labor Day ! (4 Posts) - #4
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Woot! Three cheers for Monday!

09-02-14  07:46am - 58 days the danger of cloud based systems (19 Posts) - #5
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Society is in the throes of information adolescence; we're having growing pains as we deal with how insufficient traditional concepts of privacy are in the information age. The solution will be for us to re-imagine what privacy is, and when it can be presumed. In the past, privacy could be presumed more or less most of the time, even in public places. Nowadays, privacy can only be presumed if you've taken active steps to create it. At all other times we must consider that our words and actions are no longer private. It sucks, but it's just one of the negative ramifications of a generally positive information revolution.

09-02-14  07:42am - 58 days Another moratorium. (19 Posts) - #7
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Originally Posted by pat362:


^^I wish you hadn't posted what you did because you're quite wrong. The system does not work. It never has up to now and this latest event is just more proof. The fact that a moratorium was imposed and that a list of first generation patients was created means that the lady in question had unprotected sex with multiple partners while she might have been infected. That's basically saying that the other chickens are safe after the fox has eaten a couple of them and been caught by the farmer. The dead chickens aren't coming back, the other chickens are scared shitless because that could have been them and there is always another fox just around the corner waiting to eat the other chickens.

The only way the system will work is if the performer has a positive test result prior to shooting and is told that she can't shoot because of the positive result. Anything else is a crap shoot. I don't know if you gamble but the house always wins in the end. The other option is condoms but we know how much the industry loves condoms.

The only good news in this case is that it appears the performer had a false positive so the moratorium is already lifted.


The tricky thing is practicality; tests take time and money, and models have private lives and sleep with people in non-professional unregulatable contexts.

Currently, as I understand it, models take regular STI tests (monthly, in our case) and are asked to refrain from unprotected sex for the duration of time that they are considered 'in test' (i.e. having had a clean test within the last month). The issue is, what's to say a model practices unsafe sex off camera and doesn't say so or get retested? Enforcing regular testing is a strategy to manage that (otherwise a model could take one test and be considered 'in test' forever, if they were to be taken at their word for practicing safe sex only).

A particular benefit we enjoy to performer safety is that most of our models only shoot once, and none of them shoot on an ongoing, regular basis. So for us it's easy to arrange the test to immediately precede any shoots, to minimise the period of time between a model's test, and any shoots they do. This isn't plausible for other sites that need to regularly shoot with the same talent, however.

The only watertight solution would be to have a fresh test for every performer, for every shoot day. The problem there is prohibitive costs. The two obvious solutions would be (a) to force studios to front that cost, or (b) to make STI tests free for everyone (i.e. the government pays).

I strongly lean in favour of option (b)- free STI testing paid for by the government health budget is just an all round good idea for society, not just porn. A walk-in STI clinic funded by the public purse would be a great way to encourage greater sexual in modern society. In some places, this is already available to some extent. In other places, there is some cultural resistance to social welfare- USA is one of those places, so I'm not sure whether it's a realistic proposition for the US industry.

Option (a) is doable, the costs sure could come out of studio profits. However, this probably would decimate a lot of smaller studios that are already struggling. The big ones could handle it, though. Also, returning to the US, just as there's a cultural predisposition towards 'socialistic' public welfare programs, there's also a bias against industry regulation too. I'm not sure which bias is greater, though.

Let's not forget also that regulations are all good and well, but meaningless without systems of compliance and enforcement, which cost money themselves. If the government is going to fork out to regulate, they might as well fork out to provide harm-preventative services.

08-29-14  05:27am - 63 days Another moratorium. (19 Posts) - #2
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Yeah, here's an article on XBIZ

It's always bad news to hear of this kind of thing, and our best wishes go to the folks in LA. If we want to look at the positive side, this is the system working; a model has tested positive, and a moratorium is in effect to protect others in the industry.

08-29-14  05:21am - 63 days Other review sites (17 Posts) - #5
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Dealing with review sites is a part of my job; there are plenty of other review sites, but none come to mind as being quite like pornusers.com (active user-driven reviews).

If you were looking for substitutes to 'thebestporn.com', there's a lot of comparable competition - but still, none that I know of are quite as prominent, comprehensive, well curated, impartial, spam-free, and easy to use (all at once).

TBP is probably the best review site out there, and has a very good rep for this reason. Pornusers isn't for everyone (for instance, the reviews are by their nature very subjective), but it offers something fairy unique: a place for porn enthusiasts to share opinions openly, to build a community even, and sometimes even engage the paysites themselves to offer feedback and resolve disputes in the open air.

08-29-14  05:12am - 63 days When age is drying up your creative juices, who'ya gonna call? (16 Posts) - #4
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Keep at it, Greymane; writing is it's own reward. Also, keep in mind that the forum might not be as busy as it once was.

08-29-14  05:08am - 63 days Based on experience - why bother join pay sites? (15 Posts) - #3
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Cool tip, if you use gmail, you can put the sitename into the email address you supply them after a '+' symbol. For example:

myemailaddress@gmail.com

becomes

myemailaddress+yourspammywebsite@gmail.com

The email address still works, and mail to the modified address will come to your inbox as normal - except the 'to:' address will indicate the full, modified email. This way, if you start getting a lot of spam, you can look at the 'to:' address to see which site sold your details to spammers.

Anyhow, as to why you should buy porn, I'm in slight disagreement with pat362 above- I don't think it's up to people to do it because it's the right thing to do. Instead, I think paysites have a sink-or-swim responsibility to make paying better than the free stuff. And plenty of sites do.

Free porn, (both from affiliate sites, and unlicenced filesharing sites), comes with a lot of spam, ads, adware, spyware, and malware. The quality is generally lower. The range is generally better.

Paysites ought not to spam their customer-base; if you pay to use a site, you shouldn't have to expect ads, and certainly not malware. The quality should be higher. Navigation should be safer and easier.

Of course, there are shitty sites that take money, and then go ahead and spam the hell out of their users. The best protection against that is being informed, and sites like this one are a great way of getting informed.

For the industry as a whole to overcome freeporn, paid porn will need to offer similar or better range than the free stuff. At the moment, videobox is the best example of that, but there's still a long way to go. The folks here are working on a site called myporn.com that seems to be aiming at similar goalposts (a single curated and aggregated resource). Porn needs a netflix, itunes, spotify, steam, googleplay equivalent.

Disclaimer: the above opinion comes from someone working for a paysite.

08-28-14  10:09am - 63 days I got cheated by GGG bigtime. (4 Posts) - #5
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I don't get how it even makes sense to treat customers this way. I mean, surely it's better to build trust and repeat business, no? The average porn user isn't someone who subscribes to a single site once and then never again- they come back if you treat them well and run a half-decent site.

We make it pretty straight forward to join without rebills, or cancel them via our site, the billing site, emailing us, or emailing the biller. Sure it makes it easy for people to leave, but it also means there's no bad blood stopping them from coming back.

Seems like the obvious way to do things.

08-26-14  07:17am - 66 days Does anybody find this overkill of finger- sucking having any worthwhile purpose? (9 Posts) - #10
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Let's not overlook the potential practical applications of a finger with a bit of 'nature's lube' on it!

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