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05-10-08  03:08am - 2267 days Original Post - #1
Colm4 (10)
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Eastern Europeans taking over?

Lately, it seems as Eastern European women are taking over the porn business. I'm mainly interested in Female masturbation sites and more and more of these are from Eastern-europe.

I don't like the way that is going. Though these girls are insanely hot, they perform so robotic and emotionless. With an attitude of, 'I'll do my thing, collect my money and get home asap'.
Recently I read something about this phenomenon and in these countries (Poland, Bulgaria, etc), there are dozens of these companies that recruit and deliver girls for every single fetish you can think of. For the American companies it's very easy to get lots of material fast, easy and relatively cheap.
So this is something that's just going to expand more and more.

What is your view about this? Are you annoyed with the increase of European women? Do you disagree with the 'emotionless', or don't you mind since the girl is hot?

05-10-08  05:30am - 2267 days #2
Drooler (218)
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Originally Posted by Colm4:


Lately, it seems as Eastern European women are taking over the porn business. I'm mainly interested in Female masturbation sites and more and more of these are from Eastern-europe.

I don't like the way that is going. Though these girls are insanely hot, they perform so robotic and emotionless. With an attitude of, 'I'll do my thing, collect my money and get home asap'.
Recently I read something about this phenomenon and in these countries (Poland, Bulgaria, etc), there are dozens of these companies that recruit and deliver girls for every single fetish you can think of. For the American companies it's very easy to get lots of material fast, easy and relatively cheap.
So this is something that's just going to expand more and more.

What is your view about this? Are you annoyed with the increase of European women? Do you disagree with the 'emotionless', or don't you mind since the girl is hot?


Here's something that I just don't agree with at all, and I've seen such complaints before. I don't find the Eastern European women to be categorically any more or less "emotionless" than any other regionally defined group. There's plenty of passion and pleasure in videos and photosets I have of Mia Stone, Julie Silver, Marina/Euphrat, Sophie Paris, Lucy Lee, Mili Jay, etc. etc. etc.

Nor do I see them as "taking over the porn business." They have grabbed quite a share of the market, and that's been for nothing but the better. But the women of the Americas, for example, will always have a good share of it, too, which pleases me just as much.

Don't you see that it's a rank oversimplication to say that Eastern European women are emotionless and interested only in the money? It isn't like the female half of society turns into icy little robots, programmed with Quicken, once one moves, say, east of the Rhine.

Spin the globe, stop, point to an area: Of course, they're ALL in it for the money! And they'll make less if they lack the sex appeal, which of course is more a matter of getting a feeling across than it is of looks.

Over the years, I've gotten to know women from this part of world myself, from Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltics, the Balkans, and so on, and it's like the old saying goes, "It takes all kinds." Sweet girls, flirty girls, cold girls, scheming girls, neurotic girls, psycho girls, etc. Remind you of any place familiar?

So I've been quite surprised at this notion about what is a really diverse group of women, and wonder what could possibly explain it.

But I doubt that the tide is going to turn back. Reason? These girls are popular! If they weren't, the number of sites that feature them would dwindle, and that sure as hell isn't happening.

Count me among those who lack the sensibility to have developed a bias against Eastern European women in porn. You know the party’s really getting underway when the female boxers take a fisting break.

The next time someone tries to sell you something, ask them, "Do I get a floppy disk with it?" See how they react ...

05-10-08  03:26pm - 2267 days #3
JBDICK (20)
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Location: Wales, UK
I have to say...

Drooler is TOTALLY on the money with his response...

I've just had a lengthy chat with someone who knows all about European Pornstars/Models...my dick...

and as far as he is concerned they are state of the art...programmed to perform...flawlessly perfect...tight with all the right attributes from the best 'suck-me-dry' gene pool...eurobabeindex.com is the European Portfolio of Porn...I use it like I breathe Oxygen...it's necessary for my survival...don't get me wrong I love American and Canadian Girls too...

but European Girls aren't taking over. It's European websites that are taking over and why, because as Drooler implies, they deliver the goods with quantity and quality and most of the time price as their 3 main criteria...

what about South America...they're putting up a good effort, hell Japan and some parts of the far east are too ...christ even India and Pakistan have a growing market...

I'm more than happy for these MOST beautiful European Girls to make such a good contribution to my best friend entertainment system.

My only gripe is, how can we encourage more input from those not pulling their weight like the African countries, and Australia...and what about the Middle East...trust me when I say that those girls in that region are as valuable as their oil reserves...lets just hope we don't impose any embargos on them...

European Girls are at the top at the moment...and I am more than happy to salute them...Stand to Attention!!! Beautiful Girls Covered in Pearls and No Oysters in Sight

05-10-08  04:17pm - 2267 days #4
Goldfish (67)
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I'll come to Colm's defense and say there is some sub par porn out there with robotic, emotionless models -- that also happen to be Eastern European. With so many porn stars being Eastern European now there are bound to be some bad ones.

I think the Euro porn market is approaching saturation and there are too many companies out there trying to grab a share. Some of these companies are pumping out movies with poor storylines, production and/or model direction. I think the bar is also being lowered as far as the model selection process. (i.e The you're cute, you're in philosophy.)

That said, I'm a big fan of many of the Euro sites/pornstars and I hope they'll be around for a long time coming.

05-10-08  07:58pm - 2267 days #5
pat362 (367)
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I also agree Drooler that they aren't more or less robotic then your average US porn star. There is the language issue with some of them, since many do not speak english or at least not that well.

One of the reasons why they may be taking a larger chunck of the market is that most of them are willing to perform almost any type of sex act right at the beginning of their career. The same can't be said of US porn stars. If your a producer making a movie or a webmaster filming a scene. Which perfomer are you going to use. The one that only does vag for "X" amount of money, hasn't decided to do anal yet (but you know it will be very expensive when she does) or a girl willing to do all of the above and more.

Another reason is the stagering amount of European stars compared to the US. Take a look at the active perfomers in Europe compared to the States as an example. Long live the Brown Coats.

05-11-08  03:07pm - 2266 days #6
shooterbo (6)
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When you get a chance, look at some of Elegant Angel's material from Budapest, Hungary...and it is dated stuff! ...but what a turn-on. Participants are anything but icey.

05-11-08  03:45pm - 2266 days #7
jd1961 (95)
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Most American porn girls look like drunken sailors who just stumbled out of a tattoo parlor.
The euros look like women.

05-11-08  03:47pm - 2266 days #8
jd1961 (95)
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Originally Posted by Goldfish:


I'll come to Colm's defense and say there is some sub par porn out there with robotic, emotionless models -- that also happen to be Eastern European. With so many porn stars being Eastern European now there are bound to be some bad ones.


That might be the fault of whoever's directing.

05-11-08  03:51pm - 2266 days #9
jd1961 (95)
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Originally Posted by Drooler:


Here's something that I just don't agree with at all, and I've seen such complaints before. I don't find the Eastern European women to be categorically any more or less "emotionless" than any other regionally defined group. There's plenty of passion and pleasure in videos and photosets I have of Mia Stone, Julie Silver, Marina/Euphrat, Sophie Paris, Lucy Lee, Mili Jay, etc. etc. etc.




I think the language barrier may have something to do with this perception. The producers out there still think we Americans must have everything anglicized. Did we talk about this before? Olga becomes Suzie, and she must not say anything, or else we will be "turned off". Of course, I don't think we feel that way.

05-12-08  12:41am - 2266 days #10
exotics4me (463)
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Originally Posted by Colm4:


Lately, it seems as Eastern European women are taking over the porn business. I'm mainly interested in Female masturbation sites and more and more of these are from Eastern-europe.

I don't like the way that is going. Though these girls are insanely hot, they perform so robotic and emotionless. With an attitude of, 'I'll do my thing, collect my money and get home asap'.
Recently I read something about this phenomenon and in these countries (Poland, Bulgaria, etc), there are dozens of these companies that recruit and deliver girls for every single fetish you can think of. For the American companies it's very easy to get lots of material fast, easy and relatively cheap.
So this is something that's just going to expand more and more.

What is your view about this? Are you annoyed with the increase of European women? Do you disagree with the 'emotionless', or don't you mind since the girl is hot?


The first thing I disagree with is calling the Euro models emotionless. They moan, they grind, they orgasm, they scream.

What I'm saying is you are painting a picture here of women who walk in, camera turns on and someone has to remind them to take their clothes off. I really don't understand your complaints since all porn models show emotions of some kind.

I do know that we have a lot of members on this site that complain about the Euro girls not talking, providing cheap labor and this fairly common used quote, "They act like they are just there for the money".

Reality is, all models, Euro or American are just there for the money. If not, their websites would charge only enough to pay for their equipment costs.

I also think that it is a major misconception that Euro girls are cheaper. American girls do more hardcore sets, which brings more pay than solo sets. That can be quoted from Brad of Xisty, Shap of Twistys and at least one other webmaster on here.

Some have complained that one of the great Euro sites of all-time, 1byday has dropped off, but the members kept wanting hardcore sets and most of the gorgeous models don't do hardcore. I would imagine they can get a B grade model to do hardcore for a similar price that they can get an A grade model to do solo.

One thing to note, the girls that talk in porn are usually told what to say, so that is actually worse than not talking at all. I have an old video of Eve Angel doing hardcore. Eve is known for not talking in English. But this was early in her career and she starts the video by saying, "Hi my name Eva, do you like my body?" she doesn't say another word in the video. Which tells me they told her exactly what to say in English, so it wasn't her thoughts at all.

I hate to end this way, and hope that you don't take this wrong, because I am just trying to be helpful. Porn is not reality. I know there are reality porn sites, but most of those are just highly scripted and planned scenes, with scripted words. Like probably the most famous scenario in porn. Man comes to fix pipes, woman says, "I have clog, can you get it out for me?" that to me is more unbelievable than a model who doesn't talk at all. There are some sites that have real sex with real couples, but I can promise you, none of them look like Sophie Moone or Eve Angel.

Remember something, even in real life. With women, it is more about their body language than the language coming out of their mouth. “You cannot blame porn. When I was young, I used to masturbate to Gilligan's Island.” - Ron Jeremy

05-12-08  12:25pm - 2265 days #11
Wittyguy (95)
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For me, I don't really care where the girls come from as long as they're hot and can perform. I do think there a few reasons for the growth in the eastern euro market.

1. Money. You can probably get better quality women for less money than you can here. It's only been a few years since the eastern economies calmed down but the average American still has about 20x more purchasing power than the average Russian (google fact search). I equate it to the trend in conventional modelling. With the fall of the iron curtain the Western Supermodel essentially died because you had all these incredibly hot Eastern Europeans willing to model for a heck of a lot less.

2. Looks. Let's face it, America is the home of the double cheeseburger supersized meal. Is it just me or do more of the younger American porn stars seem to be a bit heavier today than they were a decade ago? When it comes to the young hotties, I think Eastern Europe has the most to choose from simply because the Burger King and XBox lifestyle hasn't invaded every country yet.

3. Lack of Stigma. Europe has a more relaxed attitude about sex and while being in porn still isn't a "mainstream" career there I think it's not as taboo as it is here. Coule this with my first two reasons and I think you have a bigger pool of willing performers available to porn producers.

05-12-08  11:31pm - 2265 days #12
Drooler (218)
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Originally Posted by jd1961:


I think the language barrier may have something to do with this perception. The producers out there still think we Americans must have everything anglicized. Did we talk about this before? Olga becomes Suzie, and she must not say anything, or else we will be "turned off". Of course, I don't think we feel that way.


Yes, I think we've had this kind of conversation before. And perhaps some porn consumers have that attitude that everything must be "Anglicized" or "Americanized" (in a very narrow, "white" preconception that misses the enormous contributions of everyone else).

Pier999 is one of those sites that gives phony, American-sounding names to Eastern Europeans: Rita Barrett, Sandra Lane, Sally Walker, Becky Milar, Andrea Randall, Rachel Linton, Diane Moore, Candy Hunter, Marie Sheridan, Tonya Tyler, Patty Gower (for Marina/Euphrat), Veronica Drake, Zoe Saint, etc. (And in all fairness, there are also some such as Teresa Ilova, Marketa Brymova, and Mariana Pokova.)

Do we really need to have our porn spoon-fed to us like this? Mariana Pokova -- that's Lenka Horokova! How's about Aneta Smrhova? Marketa Belonoha? Zsanett Égerházy?

Ohhh, scary, foreign-sounding names! It's distracting! Damn if I didn't lose my (note the name) Johnson! I'm outta here!

Maybe there is a language barrier, but where, precisely, is it? I submit that resistance to the girl's real names (should they wish to actually use them), or pseudonyms from their own languages, and to their speaking their own languages, is at least half of it.

I see no trouble enjoying the interview videos from VirtuaGirlHD with the girls speaking in their native tongues. That's seeing them more of how they really are. (Of course, the English subtitles were necessary. I'm a long way off from my rank beginner status in Hungarian and Czech.)

I even once found (and have kept) a hot, unsubtitled hardcore video of Lucie Horinkova that was all in Czech. So does she really have to be homogenized into "Victorie Kay?" We're interested in beauty and sex here, right? Would it really matter if the girl was screaming "bassza meg!" You know the party’s really getting underway when the female boxers take a fisting break.

The next time someone tries to sell you something, ask them, "Do I get a floppy disk with it?" See how they react ...

05-13-08  04:50am - 2264 days #13
jd1961 (95)
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Originally Posted by Drooler:


Yes, I think we've had this kind of conversation before. And perhaps some porn consumers have that attitude that everything must be "Anglicized" or "Americanized" (in a very narrow, "white" preconception that misses the enormous contributions of everyone else).

Pier999 is one of those sites that gives phony, American-sounding names to Eastern Europeans: Rita Barrett, Sandra Lane, Sally Walker, Becky Milar, Andrea Randall, Rachel Linton, Diane Moore, Candy Hunter, Marie Sheridan, Tonya Tyler, Patty Gower (for Marina/Euphrat), Veronica Drake, Zoe Saint, etc. (And in all fairness, there are also some such as Teresa Ilova, Marketa Brymova, and Mariana Pokova.)

Do we really need to have our porn spoon-fed to us like this? Mariana Pokova -- that's Lenka Horokova! How's about Aneta Smrhova? Marketa Belonoha? Zsanett �gerh�zy?

Ohhh, scary, foreign-sounding names! It's distracting! Damn if I didn't lose my (note the name) Johnson! I'm outta here!

Maybe there is a language barrier, but where, precisely, is it? I submit that resistance to the girl's real names (should they wish to actually use them), or pseudonyms from their own languages, and to their speaking their own languages, is at least half of it.

I see no trouble enjoying the interview videos from VirtuaGirlHD with the girls speaking in their native tongues. That's seeing them more of how they really are. (Of course, the English subtitles were necessary. I'm a long way off from my rank beginner status in Hungarian and Czech.)

I even once found (and have kept) a hot, unsubtitled hardcore video of Lucie Horinkova that was all in Czech. So does she really have to be homogenized into "Victorie Kay?" We're interested in beauty and sex here, right? Would it really matter if the girl was screaming "bassza meg!"


Maybe it's a product of the Cold War. Remember we were all told that Eastern Euro women were ugly fat things working in a field? I think that's where this "robotic" stereotype comes from. To be honest, I never had any idea that eastern Euro women were so good looking.

05-13-08  05:35am - 2264 days #14
Goldfish (67)
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Originally Posted by jd1961:


I think the language barrier may have something to do with this perception. The producers out there still think we Americans must have everything anglicized. Did we talk about this before? Olga becomes Suzie, and she must not say anything, or else we will be "turned off". Of course, I don't think we feel that way.


I don't see the Eastern Europeans as being emotionless as a group. I was watching some older video clips from Sapphic Erotica last night and they seem to have as much emotion as I'd ever want to see. Some of the Cali/Florida crap with the screaming, slapping and spitting can be a bit over the top.

I'll also say that they're not always quite. Some of the producers interview the girls in their broken English and they moan when they get into the sex.

05-14-08  09:51am - 2263 days #15
Denner (233)
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Yes, we've had this discussion before - but it's still relevant.
There're shit from both sites of the Atlantic.
What really makes a diffenrence is the way of doing SOFT porn.

The european pornsites are quite similar to the US in the hc (I may get some whipping here), but the euro hc-stuff are not that different from US-sites - with a few exeptions - wham, bam, anal and more and more facials at the end.

But the solo stuff/masturbation is simply more elegant and erotic than US-stuff: Rub My Muff - those series, for exampel - is plain boring and a soloway of "wam bam".
Sites like 1ByDay ect., MET ART, Nubiles (US-based, though), European Glamour Girls - shows how great softcore stuff can be... "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle"

05-14-08  11:30am - 2263 days #16
Drooler (218)
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Originally Posted by jd1961:


Maybe it's a product of the Cold War. Remember we were all told that Eastern Euro women were ugly fat things working in a field? I think that's where this "robotic" stereotype comes from. To be honest, I never had any idea that eastern Euro women were so good looking.


I was told about the starving children in Korea, but not about the E European women. When I started seeing more and more of them in porn, after my initial and very pleasing Jana Cova introduction, I thought, "The men there have it so good! They must really prize these girls!"

I tend to think of Eastern European girls as having the finest gene pool for beautiful ass on the planet. (I think we've had that discussion, too.) You know the party’s really getting underway when the female boxers take a fisting break.

The next time someone tries to sell you something, ask them, "Do I get a floppy disk with it?" See how they react ...

05-15-08  07:39pm - 2262 days #17
pat362 (367)
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Denner is right that there are probably as many good sites as bad sites here compared to overseas. I just think that there are a greater number of amazing looking Eastern and Western European women working in the porn busines these days then American ones. What is somewhat sadder is that American pornstar mentality is starting to creep into European porn. I'm talking about the need for stars to go the route of bionic implants, bolt-ons, Fake breasts. It's getting more common for stars to get them. Just take alook at this thread from Eurobabe Index forum: http://www.eurobabeindex.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5290 Long live the Brown Coats.

05-16-08  09:00am - 2261 days #18
Denner (233)
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Originally Posted by pat362:


Denner is right that there are probably as many good sites as bad sites here compared to overseas. I just think that there are a greater number of amazing looking Eastern and Western European women working in the porn busines these days then American ones. What is somewhat sadder is that American pornstar mentality is starting to creep into European porn. I'm talking about the need for stars to go the route of bionic implants, bolt-ons, Fake breasts. It's getting more common for stars to get them. Just take alook at this thread from Eurobabe Index forum: http://www.eurobabeindex.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5290


Interesting threat from eurobabeindex.., pat362.

On the soft side: European Glamour Girls has a great way of avoiding girls with implants - dammed beautifull most of them.

Still I'm very partial to some "fake"-girls like Christina Bella og Naomi - with their implants in both lips, breast and what not. They are among my favorites on the "cheaper" side... "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle"

05-16-08  02:48pm - 2261 days #19
Goldfish (67)
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Originally Posted by pat362:


Denner is right that there are probably as many good sites as bad sites here compared to overseas. I just think that there are a greater number of amazing looking Eastern and Western European women working in the porn busines these days then American ones. What is somewhat sadder is that American pornstar mentality is starting to creep into European porn. I'm talking about the need for stars to go the route of bionic implants, bolt-ons, Fake breasts. It's getting more common for stars to get them. Just take alook at this thread from Eurobabe Index forum: http://www.eurobabeindex.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5290


With the apparent popularity of the beautiful, natural-chested European girls I can't imagine that style of porn would go away. If the "bionic implants" are moving overseas maybe the thin, young and natural-breasted look will catch on in American porn.

05-16-08  07:20pm - 2261 days #20
pat362 (367)
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not completely against breast enlargement. If a performer, for whatever reason, decides
that she'd like to get an increase in size, then by all means go ahead. What tends to be the issue is that they choose to get such a large increase that it alters their body structure. What you wind up with is a natural looking girl with unatural looking breast.
It's also not a great decision from a purely business point of view. Having the procedure takes you away from performing, alienates some of your fan base, requires a physical adjustement, and will require to get another surgery down the line because they are too big, too small, too painfull, too something, and then you'll repeat the entire process all over again.... Long live the Brown Coats.

05-19-08  02:58pm - 2258 days #21
Goldfish (67)
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Originally Posted by pat362:


Don't get me wrong. I'm not completely against breast enlargement. If a performer, for whatever reason, decides
that she'd like to get an increase in size, then by all means go ahead. What tends to be the issue is that they choose to get such a large increase that it alters their body structure. What you wind up with is a natural looking girl with unatural looking breast.
It's also not a great decision from a purely business point of view. Having the procedure takes you away from performing, alienates some of your fan base, requires a physical adjustement, and will require to get another surgery down the line because they are too big, too small, too painfull, too something, and then you'll repeat the entire process all over again....


I think replacing natural breasts with implants is almost always a wrong decision. The only exception may be if the breasts are disfigured in some way. I'll take small(er) and natural every time.

05-19-08  06:48pm - 2258 days #22
pat362 (367)
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Originally Posted by Goldfish:


I think replacing natural breasts with implants is almost always a wrong decision. The only exception may be if the breasts are disfigured in some way. I'll take small(er) and natural every time.


From your lips to every girl out there thinking about it.
I had a friend who had her natural breast size reduced because it was causing her serious health issues.

I think that every girl wanting to go the route of larger breast should be forced to wear a padded bra equivalent to the size she's looking to get. I wonder how long before they realise that their back is sore all the time.

If a woman has an accident or God forbid requires the removal of a breast because of cancer. Then it's great that cosmetic surgery is able to help.

The reality is that women who get breast enlargement aren't happy about something, and I don't think it's always the fact that their breast are smaller than other women.

I found these statistics on a Government website. Mind you these do not include deaths because as far I can see no one as ever done the reseach.

46% of women with silicone implants & 21% with saline implants underwent at least one
re-operation within 3yrs
25% of silicone patients and 8% of saline patients had implants removed.
6% of silicone patients and 16% of saline patients experienced breast pain. Long live the Brown Coats.

07-18-08  03:43am - 2198 days #23
Belthazar (0)
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It is funny to read posts about Czech Republic - we really dont have a pornstar nowdays. Is is strange to see how famous porstars from EU lost their career drive - only girl who was ok in USA was - Sylvia Saint.
Others were popular in EU but in USA no way - Deborah Wells, Anita Dark or Karen Lancaume. Women: Different hardware, same software

07-24-08  08:53pm - 2192 days #24
anthonyhopkins (0)
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Belthazar,
how about Karin Schubert,laura Angel, Tabath Cash, Sandra Romain, Katja Kassin? they are doing good in US, and Erika Bella who is my favorite since 90s
they are great

07-25-08  02:44am - 2191 days #25
Drooler (218)
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Originally Posted by Belthazar:


It is funny to read posts about Czech Republic - we really dont have a pornstar nowdays. Is is strange to see how famous porstars from EU lost their career drive - only girl who was ok in USA was - Sylvia Saint.
Others were popular in EU but in USA no way - Deborah Wells, Anita Dark or Karen Lancaume.


I was surprised to read this, and I wonder how popularity is being measured. I don't have any particular measure myself except for the number of sites on which I've seen Lucy Lee, Mili Jay, Susana Spears, Adriana Malkova, Lucy Stratilova, Zuzana Zeleznovova, Vanessa Cooper, Aneta Smrhova, etc. etc. There are MANY Czech models that get a lot of work in porn, hardcore and/or softcore, on websites that accept payment in US dollars.

I thought that Anita Dark was Hungarian, not Czech. Anyway, she's had a long career but is still active. There are recent posts of her at Aziani, which I think is an American site. And she still looks marvelous! You know the party’s really getting underway when the female boxers take a fisting break.

The next time someone tries to sell you something, ask them, "Do I get a floppy disk with it?" See how they react ...

07-25-08  09:56am - 2191 days #26
turboshaft (24)
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What about Monica Sweetheart? Probably not quite as big as Silvia Saint, but she still has done a lot of work in the US.

There are a lot European girls, particularly Czech, who are on American pay sites where they sometimes equal the number of American models, and sometimes even outnumber them. Europe hasn't produced a Jenna Jameson equivalent yet, but they still have had plenty of women achieve at least moderate success (in porn terms) in the US. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove

07-25-08  10:55am - 2191 days #27
Belthazar (0)
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I wanted to say, that we have so many girls working in US porn bizz, but not a big Czech porn superstar like before.
btw - Deborah Wells (Hungarian), Karen Lancaume (French - R.I.P.) and Anita Dark (Hungarian) Women: Different hardware, same software

07-25-08  03:03pm - 2191 days #28
Goldfish (67)
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My opinion is starting to change on this topic. The last couple sites I've joined, one being Video Box, have had mainly American porn stars and they're great! I think the US studios are finally getting the hint and they're focusing on a more natural look -- i.e. less plastic surgery.

Some of that American personality is a nice change after watching so much of the Euro porn recently. (Though some of it is still too harsh with the spitting and choking.)

Finally, and most importantly the girls are hot. You gotta love competition!

07-26-08  01:22am - 2191 days #29
Drooler (218)
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Originally Posted by Belthazar:


I wanted to say, that we have so many girls working in US porn bizz, but not a big Czech porn superstar like before.
btw - Deborah Wells (Hungarian), Karen Lancaume (French - R.I.P.) and Anita Dark (Hungarian)


Yes, I see what you mean. It's true in the US, too. The last real superstar I think was Jenna Jameson. About the closest now to superstar status might be Jenna Haze, but I'm not totally sure about that, either.

Jenna Jameson became a household word in the US when internet porn was still taking its baby steps. If you wanted more Jenna, you'd head for a porn shop or a video store that had a "porn room."

Now video out-of-the-box has given way to internet downloads. Sales can't be as easily measured perhaps, so it's harder to tell who the superstar(s) are.

And the internet porn world now has many, many different women who are hot in looks and at least good in performance.

Add to that the expansion of niches, and I do think porn users tend to stick with the particular ones they like. So the would-be superstar has gotten lost among all of the women, all of the sites, and all of the variety. You know the party’s really getting underway when the female boxers take a fisting break.

The next time someone tries to sell you something, ask them, "Do I get a floppy disk with it?" See how they react ...

07-26-08  10:08am - 2190 days #30
BostonPJR (72)
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The next Jenna Jameson we may never see again. You're not wrong there. When a media expands like porn most recently has (mainstream television and popular music before it), there is no longer a "king of all..." or "queen of all..."
But there are still household names in the porn world. And for those of us with a particular niche, there's usually still one person sitting at the top of the heap.

You post did remind me of how much i love Jenna Haze ...

07-26-08  11:34am - 2190 days #31
PinkPanther (46)
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One great way to test this assertion that Eastern European women are more emotionless or robotic than their US counterparts is to check out ALS Scan's Caribbean Trips where they have had a mix of US and Eastern European women for the past few years - are the EE women more emotionless than the US women? Hell, no!

Look, there are a lot of people producing porn and a lot of them aren't any good at connecting with the models and getting anything very good out of them. They get the basics - take your clothes off, stick this dildo in your ass, have an orgasm - and it's repetitive and uncreative and emotionless and robotic - and that's the fault, to a large degree, of the people in charge of the production.

Why do I love ALS Scan so much? Because whatever they're doing to connect with their models, they do so more consistently than anybody else out there. And they get better material as a result - and then they're using excellent equipment so they capture what they get well and they present it beautifully - using the same models that can appear emotionless and robotic (bored is my word for it) for other people.

07-26-08  04:11pm - 2190 days #32
Drooler (218)
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Originally Posted by PinkPanther:


One great way to test this assertion that Eastern European women are more emotionless or robotic than their US counterparts is to check out ALS Scan's Caribbean Trips where they have had a mix of US and Eastern European women for the past few years - are the EE women more emotionless than the US women? Hell, no!

Look, there are a lot of people producing porn and a lot of them aren't any good at connecting with the models and getting anything very good out of them. They get the basics - take your clothes off, stick this dildo in your ass, have an orgasm - and it's repetitive and uncreative and emotionless and robotic - and that's the fault, to a large degree, of the people in charge of the production.

Why do I love ALS Scan so much? Because whatever they're doing to connect with their models, they do so more consistently than anybody else out there. And they get better material as a result ...


Pink Panther, you've nailed it. I've seen the same kind of thing again and again. ALS Scan really does work at getting the models in a good mood to project warmth and charm. Another site that does it well (though I have my complaints) is TeenRotica.

And then there are sites that fall short. Eva's Garden often does. LSG Models, too. And Hegre-Art, as much as I've praised it, could certainly do better.

You can even see the difference with a single American model. Ginger Lee comes across nicely at ALS Scan, but her recent photosets at ATK Premium are another matter. In set after set, when she's got her bare back to the camera and looks back, her facial expression appears as if at the moment the shutter clicked, she realized that someone was sneaking up to put a tarantula on her ass. And it's that same expression, again and again! Awful.

A girl can't always know what her face looks like. She can't see through the viewer, since she's doing the posing, so she needs some direction or some good humor or something so the shoot will be a success. It's up to the people who do see through the viewer and see the results of the shoot, i.e., those in charge of production, ultimately, to ensure that.

Otherwise, what we wind up with is disappointment. You know the party’s really getting underway when the female boxers take a fisting break.

The next time someone tries to sell you something, ask them, "Do I get a floppy disk with it?" See how they react ...
Edited on Jul 27, 2008, 07:01am

07-27-08  07:50am - 2189 days #33
pat362 (367)
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Originally Posted by Drooler:


Yes, I see what you mean. It's true in the US, too. The last real superstar I think was Jenna Jameson. About the closest now to superstar status might be Jenna Haze, but I'm not totally sure about that, either.

Jenna Jameson became a household word in the US when internet porn was still taking its baby steps. If you wanted more Jenna, you'd head for a porn shop or a video store that had a "porn room."

Now video out-of-the-box has given way to internet downloads. Sales can't be as easily measured perhaps, so it's harder to tell who the superstar(s) are.

And the internet porn world now has many, many different women who are hot in looks and at least good in performance.

Add to that the expansion of niches, and I do think porn users tend to stick with the particular ones they like. So the would-be superstar has gotten lost among all of the women, all of the sites, and all of the variety.


I agree with you that Jenna Jameson became an household name, but I disagree with you that she became a superstar.
Thanks to her appearance on the Howard Stern movie her name started being discussed on network television. I think that she or her manager saw an opportunity to market her in a more favorable light to mainstream media. That may have increased her bankable assets, but I don't really care if a pornstar is well accepted by mainstream media. I want my pornstar to be attractive and her sex scenes hot. I'm affraid that Jenna always left me a little cold on the sex part, and sadly the changes that she has done to her body have pretty much killed her attractiveness

I think you are correct that internet killed the video star just like video killed the radio star. There are so many women to choose from these days. For one to shine above the others is difficult. I agree that Jenna Haze may be a good choice for a superstar, but unlike the other Henna she didn't get she is by doing mainstream material or shying away from the hardcore stuff. Long live the Brown Coats.

07-27-08  08:31am - 2189 days #34
PinkPanther (46)
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Originally Posted by pat362:


I agree that Jenna Haze may be a good choice for a superstar, but unlike the other Jenna she didn't get she is by doing mainstream material or shying away from the hardcore stuff.


Far from it. Jenna Haze went the other way. Where Jenna Jameson clearly tried to get as mainstream as she could without losing her cred with the porn audience, Jenna Haze went for it by proving to the porn audience that she was the best. The woman's done virtually everything in terms of 'acts' and she's done it all with an incredible enthusiasm. I've got to say, though, that from recent Brazzers scenes that she's done, I hope she takes a break and takes care of her health. She's been working like a demon the past few years and she's looking a bit gaunt and tired.

07-27-08  06:58pm - 2189 days #35
pat362 (367)
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Originally Posted by PinkPanther:


Far from it. Jenna Haze went the other way. Where Jenna Jameson clearly tried to get as mainstream as she could without losing her cred with the porn audience, Jenna Haze went for it by proving to the porn audience that she was the best. The woman's done virtually everything in terms of 'acts' and she's done it all with an incredible enthusiasm. I've got to say, though, that from recent Brazzers scenes that she's done, I hope she takes a break and takes care of her health. She's been working like a demon the past few years and she's looking a bit gaunt and tired.


She's one of the few pornstars who started her career doing mostly gonzo, switched to a more softcore style and came back to hardcore. I had to go see what you meant about her look on the Brazzer network and I agree that she's looking rather pale and tired. I looked at her profile on IAFD and most of the work she's done in the last 2 yrs has been anal. That type of scene is really hard on the body. She should either take a long break or switch to girl/girl or straight boy girl. She's been in the business for 7 yrs. That's two lifetimes by pornstar yrs. Long live the Brown Coats.

07-28-08  04:44pm - 2188 days #36
StacieAdams (0)
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Pat, thanks for suggesting the Jenna Haze take a rest. Jenna is working so hard and deserves her success without having to risk her health.

One thing that concerns me is that these women are wearing out their asses and several well-known stars have even had something called an "anal prolapse" which is too gross to think about let alone explain. I sure hope the next trend in US porn market is less dangerous to the stars' health!

I have to disagree with one thing I read here:
"Reality is, all models, Euro or American are just there for the money."
Having met many many of these stars, clearly they all want to get paid well, and deserve to. But I think Jenna Haze, Nina Hartley, Belladonna, and Penny Flame are examples of stars I know who are do into being pornstars and the porn lifestyle that it comes across in their performances. There is a thing that happens to a true exhibitionist that she can't help. A special thing in her eye when she is really hot that you are watching her...

I have seen plenty of women who don't turn me on because when they are on film they don't seem to be into it. This ruins a good scene for me, whether they are from Europe or the US, mainstream or amateur (have noticed the problem across all of these). I wish there were an exhibitionist score index somewhere that was a handy guide to how turned on the pornstar is by being on camera. Stacie Adams - GameLink.com : Find Your Favorite Adult Movies, Scenes and Sex Toys - VOD in many formats, No Membership Fees, Best Customer Service 800-944-3933 x138 - Hook up with me on: http://twitter.com/stacieadams http://www.myspace.com/gamelink

07-28-08  05:09pm - 2188 days #37
Toadsith (48)
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Originally Posted by StacieAdams:


I have seen plenty of women who don't turn me on because when they are on film they don't seem to be into it. This ruins a good scene for me, whether they are from Europe or the US, mainstream or amateur (have noticed the problem across all of these). I wish there were an exhibitionist score index somewhere that was a handy guide to how turned on the pornstar is by being on camera.


I couldn't agree more - an Exhibitionist Rating is a wonderful idea. It really is quite a tragedy when stars just phone in their scene. Sadly, I find it is most common to see this in lesbian porn - I think a number of the models are willing to perform with other women, but just aren't all that excited by it. On the flip side though, those who are really do stand out. None-the-less, a less than enthusiastic model can really neuter a scene, even if she is beautiful - Allie Sin comes to mind as one. I've only seen her into maybe 3 or 4 scenes - the rest she might as well be laying on her couch and flipping through channels at 2 in the morning.

[Side Note:] Nina Hartley? And you aren't into classic porn? "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" ˇ Updated Link with Live Video filmed in Copenhagen in 1967 !

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07-28-08  06:16pm - 2188 days #38
pat362 (367)
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Originally Posted by StacieAdams:


Pat, thanks for suggesting the Jenna Haze take a rest. Jenna is working so hard and deserves her success without having to risk her health.

One thing that concerns me is that these women are wearing out their asses and several well-known stars have even had something called an "anal prolapse" which is too gross to think about let alone explain. I sure hope the next trend in US porn market is less dangerous to the stars' health!

I have to disagree with one thing I read here:
"Reality is, all models, Euro or American are just there for the money."

I have seen plenty of women who don't turn me on because when they are on film they don't seem to be into it. This ruins a good scene for me, whether they are from Europe or the US, mainstream or amateur (have noticed the problem across all of these). I wish there were an exhibitionist score index somewhere that was a handy guide to how turned on the pornstar is by being on camera.


Hi Stacie. Far too many girls today push themselves beyond what I consider healthy shooting schedules. That and too many directors today want aggressive sex. For vaginal sex that can get real sore, but in anal that gets dangerous. I wish, I could say that if producers paid girls more money, that they wouldn't overbook themselves, but I don't think it would stop them from doing it. After all the average pornstar carrer is maybe 2-3 yrs. I've actually seen a some prolapsed anus(not pretty).

I also don't think that they are all in it for the money, but most are. In their defense I have no issue if a girl decides to make money in this fashion. Better if she makes a lot of it. The ones you've named are good example of girls that appear to truly enjoy what they are doing. Is it acting or real. I don't know, but either way their perfomance on screen are amazing. Of the four named Penny is the yougest at 25 and in the biz for 6 yrs. That's 2 pornstar lifetimes, and last I heard she's still going.

An exhibitionist meter would be great, but it might be better suited to movies or scenes than to actual stars. Whether it's porn or a mainstream movie. Sometimes there is just no chemistry between the actors. Having to kiss someone you don't find attractive is one thing, having to F..K him has to be that much harder. Not everyone is a Meryl Streep. Long live the Brown Coats.

07-28-08  06:24pm - 2188 days #39
pat362 (367)
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Originally Posted by Toadsith:


I Sadly, I find it is most common to see this in lesbian porn - I think a number of the models are willing to perform with other women, but just aren't all that excited by it.
Allie Sin comes to mind as one. I've only seen her into maybe 3 or 4 scenes - the rest she might as well be laying on her couch and flipping through channels at 2 in the morning.



Have you taken a look at the movies offered by Girlfriends Films? Except for a few actresses and/or scenes, all the women appear into it. What is even more impressive is that most of these have done or still do boy/girl stuff.

Allie Sin is a good candidate for lame sex performer. You always got the feeling that she just would have rather been doing anything else. I think that if she'd been chewing gum and painting her nails during her scenes that no one would have see a difference. Long live the Brown Coats.

07-28-08  07:44pm - 2188 days #40
Goldfish (67)
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Originally Posted by StacieAdams:


I have seen plenty of women who don't turn me on because when they are on film they don't seem to be into it. This ruins a good scene for me, whether they are from Europe or the US, mainstream or amateur (have noticed the problem across all of these). I wish there were an exhibitionist score index somewhere that was a handy guide to how turned on the pornstar is by being on camera.


I'm with you and Toadsith, an exhibitionist rating would be a great tool. Penny Flame is a good example. She is not the most beautiful pornstar out there but she's been in some great scenes. There's this pornstar I recently discovered that I thought of when you brought up this topic. She goes by the name Jenni Lee. I've seen her on Reality Kings and Video Box.

Allie Sin is a disappointment. I saw what must have been one of her first movies and I liked the whole cute goth girl look. Unfortunately every clip I saw after that the performance was "unenthusiastic".

On the other end of the exhibition scale we have Sasha Grey. I think she is one of the hottest girls out there but her porn is too extreme for me.

07-30-08  07:35am - 2186 days #41
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