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04-15-09  08:15pm - 1834 days Original Post - #1
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
Automatic authorization of sites

Umm ok,
So today I get like 10 emails from 10 different sites that authorized my card to join trial then charge. These were all like 2 day trials then rebills at 39.95. Some of the places were starlightbucks.com, pimpprofits.com, and pornflux.com. They were all from Quixontic entertainment, BP-Report, and a few others for billing. I know all these sites got their information from my trannyboss.com account because I used a diff name and pw for that site than I ever do and that's the login info for these trials.

The billing site for tranny boss network is http://www.sobvsites.com/ and I think this is outrageous that they have given out my credit card for other sites and let them actually authorize transactions. I actually had to cancel my credit card cause some of the sites wouldnt let me cancel and it seems like this may go on forever. Now I prolly have to start a whole dispute charges for like 5-8 sites that are about 40 each, which is over $200. I am just flabbergasted that this shit can even happen.

I guess I learned my lesson to ever try a site that is not under ccbill or epoch. I can guarantee you that those will be the only places I will get billed from again. It's sickening to me that there are probably so many people caught up in the scheme that may not check their email in time and would get the charges.

HAYMAKERS FOR SOBV INTERNET BILLING!!!!!

04-15-09  11:02pm - 1834 days #2
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
By the way, on a side note, these are not trials from prechecked sites that I forgot to uncheck. These are sites out of nowhere that that billing company is either giving them my info or they are in on the scheme with them. I looked at my post and thought that my wording may have others think these were prechecked trials.

ugh, I hate dealing with credit card companies' customer service too....

04-16-09  12:30am - 1834 days #3
Robert Dsouza (0)
Suspended Webmaster


Posts: 3
Registered: Apr 15, '09
Location: USA
This is very helpful indeed.. I'm new to SEO, This is just what i need.. Adult DVD Distributor - Adult DVD Supplier

04-16-09  03:38am - 1834 days #4
james4096 (126)
Active User

Posts: 132
Registered: Mar 02, '09
That's totally unacceptable. sorry to hear about that.
It's never happened to me yet.

I hope that the staff at PU take notice and stop doing business with that site.

thanks for sharing this with us.

04-16-09  04:45am - 1834 days #5
Khan
PornUsers Staff




Posts: 1,556
Registered: Jan 05, '07
Location: USA
Originally Posted by Robert Dsouza:


This is very helpful indeed.. I?m new to SEO, This is just what i need..


Since this thread has absolutly nothing to do with SEO, we must assume you're posting just to have your sig displayed. Please don't do that. Your actual participation is welcomed. Senior Administrator
PornUsers.com

"What screws us up most in life is the picture in our head of how it's supposed to be"

04-16-09  05:17am - 1834 days #6
Jeffrey99 (27)
Active User



Posts: 104
Registered: Nov 04, '08
Location: Good Ole Midwest USA
Damn, that sucks. I've had my CC info stolen before but never actually got emails from site saying they charged me. I normally always stay away from sites that don't have CCbill or Epoch but every once in a while I sign up for one. So I'll make sure to stay away from the SOBV billing company.

Good luck on getting it back from your CC company. Hopefully it's alot easier then the problems I had with my bank.

04-16-09  10:42am - 1834 days #7
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
UPDATE: so I get a reply from them and of course, after my 5 paragraph essay explaining what actually happened, they respond with "when you sign up, there are two pages that are checked already for trials, you need to uncheck them before you sign up to not receive the trials". I KNEW this was how they were going to respond. So of course, now I have to break it down even more (believe me I did this the first time) and explain these trials came 3 weeks after I joined the site and I checked those trials off to begin with.

MIGRAINE ANYONE?

EXCEDRIN PLZ

04-16-09  11:32am - 1833 days #8
Wittyguy (95)
Active User



Posts: 1,046
Registered: Feb 04, '08
Location: Left Coast, USA
As an aside but related topic, does anyone know if there is a separate website that lists unscrupulous billing processors or handlers; sort of like a Consumer Reports for on-line bill processors? Seems like that might be a handy thing to know about if such a place exists and a good place to post beefs for the public in general.

As for GCode's problem, the billing company's position is total BS. To say that there are "2 pages" of prechecked cross sells is a total scam. Make sure that you post a comment here at PU on Trannyboss or where ever it was that started this chain reaction so other's don't get trapped.

04-16-09  12:27pm - 1833 days #9
TheSquirrel (53)
Active User



Posts: 689
Registered: Oct 29, '08
Location: UK
They know exactly what they're doing, because clearly this is their way of making money rather than with quality porn. Are TBP or PU administration going to do something about this? I hate those sort of scum.

04-16-09  04:10pm - 1833 days #10
Rick
PornUsers Staff




Posts: 382
Registered: Jan 05, '07
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Hi GCode,

Would you be willing to send us all the e-mails and proof you have regarding these bogus charges? You can censor any personal info of course.

support at pornusers.com

We've considered banning this company (huge company, about 100 sites) due to their bad reputation. BTW, I believe this company owns or runs the billing service.

You definitely have our support!

Thanks. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn
Porn Users - Porn Review by the People
Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder

04-16-09  05:47pm - 1833 days #11
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
Originally Posted by Rick:


Hi GCode,

Would you be willing to send us all the e-mails and proof you have regarding these bogus charges? You can censor any personal info of course.

support at pornusers.com

We've considered banning this company (huge company, about 100 sites) due to their bad reputation. BTW, I believe this company owns or runs the billing service.

You definitely have our support!

Thanks.


Yeah for sure, they just resonded again that it was me who authorized the charge and I now know that they will not admit that they did it. I'll send you all the emails so far for sure. Thanks for the support and I hope I can get this all cleared soon, it's becoming quite time consuming :(

04-16-09  06:22pm - 1833 days #12
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
Okay I sent an email to the support staff here at PU and I hope this gives you a clearer picture as to what happened cause it has all email's from the start of the membership till the responses today. As I said in the email, after getting the second response after I broke down what exactly happened which was, "we don't give out information, however these sites must have got your info because it was you who authorized it" I think I mind as well give up. At this point, letting you guys know is all I feel I can do anymore because they will never actually come out and be, "yeah, we did it, sorry, etc etc". I guess that's all I really want from them is to say that. Oh well, I hope no one else get's caught up in this or something similiar, it's a shame this stuff happens but I guess I'm at half fault for joining the shady place in the first place :(

04-17-09  05:57am - 1833 days #13
Jeffrey99 (27)
Active User



Posts: 104
Registered: Nov 04, '08
Location: Good Ole Midwest USA
Hows it going with the Credit Card company? Just wondering if your having any better luck then I did when my info got stolen? The excuse they gave me was that I authorized that company (Epoch) to take out money for one site, so even though I didn't authorize the rest of the charges, they said they couldn't do anything.

04-17-09  09:44am - 1833 days #14
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
Originally Posted by Jeffrey99:


Hows it going with the Credit Card company? Just wondering if your having any better luck then I did when my info got stolen? The excuse they gave me was that I authorized that company (Epoch) to take out money for one site, so even though I didn't authorize the rest of the charges, they said they couldn't do anything.


They told me to wait and see which charges are pending and dispute them when they post. Of course, they first stated that I should call the contact information first and see if I can get it settled with them, but I just informed them that I can't contact every single one of them because I already know they think what they are doing is okay. So, the card company said that they will try to give back any charges that were made in the past week because I have not used it for anything else but anything before that is fair game, I agreed so now I'm just waiting for anything to post and do a formal dispute. However, this took me 3 phone calls and a lot of transfers to get this to happen :)

This card was with citi cards which I never dealt with but they seemed somewhat better than the horror stories I have heard about most places. Let's just see if they are true to their word....

Your story sounds typical of these, they were trying to get at that when I first called but I actually got transfered to someone that seemed somewhat human and tried to understand. I'm sure they get a lot of people who buy stuff and call to try to dispute by saying it was stolen and stuff, but I dunno why this person kinda understood. Maybe they had other dealings or reports about the company, I dunno. So, how much did you end up losing out on if you don't mind answering? This saddens me that it has happened to others as well... Edited on Apr 17, 2009, 09:48am

04-17-09  09:59am - 1833 days #15
Rick
PornUsers Staff




Posts: 382
Registered: Jan 05, '07
Location: Las Vegas, NV
We've officially banned (no longer linking to) the company responsible for this based on GCode's information, other comments posted by users, and information we gathered from other webmasters in the industry.

You will see the sites still listed in PornUsers so users can continue to post reviews/comments. However, there is now a disclaimer and no links to the sites.

Thanks GCode for e-mailing us all the details regarding this billing issue!! The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn
Porn Users - Porn Review by the People
Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder

04-17-09  10:45am - 1833 days #16
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
Originally Posted by Rick:


We've officially banned (no longer linking to) the company responsible for this based on GCode's information, other comments posted by users, and information we gathered from other webmasters in the industry.

You will see the sites still listed in PornUsers so users can continue to post reviews/comments. However, there is now a disclaimer and no links to the sites.

Thanks GCode for e-mailing us all the details regarding this billing issue!!


Hey Rick and the rest of the Porn Users staff and community,

I appreciate everyone's support in this matter and the actions that have took place here. At first, after the initial emails from the company, I felt that I may have actually done something wrong myself. After your responses and actions, I feel 10x more at ease than I was. While being new to this community, I have never been disrespected or not had fun or great responses with all of you so far. This is by far a great haven for all pervs and people in general. I hope more people will continue to join the community based on seeing everyone's great manner in how we act and communicate on a mature level. I can't thank the staff enough for welcoming me with opening arms and taking action on behalf from my experience and a simple forum post by taking action to help others so they don't get involved in something like this.

Thanks again to you all,
GCode

04-17-09  11:52am - 1832 days #17
Rick
PornUsers Staff




Posts: 382
Registered: Jan 05, '07
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Originally Posted by GCode:


Hey Rick and the rest of the Porn Users staff and community,

I appreciate everyone's support in this matter and the actions that have took place here. At first, after the initial emails from the company, I felt that I may have actually done something wrong myself. After your responses and actions, I feel 10x more at ease than I was. While being new to this community, I have never been disrespected or not had fun or great responses with all of you so far. This is by far a great haven for all pervs and people in general. I hope more people will continue to join the community based on seeing everyone's great manner in how we act and communicate on a mature level. I can't thank the staff enough for welcoming me with opening arms and taking action on behalf from my experience and a simple forum post by taking action to help others so they don't get involved in something like this.

Thanks again to you all,
GCode


Thanks for the nice words!

It's not always as easy as this situation was, but we do our best to help protect users from getting burned. We don't like to get involved if there are one or two isolated incidents within a company and let the user comments speak for themselves. But serious action like this is necessary when there is multiple undisputed incidents that can't be denied or defended. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn
Porn Users - Porn Review by the People
Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder

07-19-09  03:50am - 1740 days #18
OneMan (27)
Active User

Posts: 22
Registered: Jan 12, '07
Location: Europe
Hi Again Rick,

The problem with "suspending" reviews on "dodgy" companies, is that poeple are then unaware of the problems !

I feel that TheBestPorn.com and PornUsers.com sites, should have a clearly marked section, where a list of sites that are using unacceptable practices, can be listed, with full details of "problems" therein.

Also,a "Charter" should be created, which lists and defines levels of acceptable behaviour for websites.

This would allow "offenders" to be identified and labelled as such, in accoradance with objective parameters.

07-19-09  05:31am - 1740 days #19
kkman112 (12)
Active User

Posts: 56
Registered: Mar 31, '07
Location: United States
Originally Posted by GCode:

I guess I learned my lesson to [never] try a site that is not under ccbill or epoch. I can guarantee you that those will be the only places I will get billed from again.


It's sad that this happened to you, just bad billing processors. I have been billed for various sites by ccbill, epoch, segpay, and GMBill and had no problem with any of them.

07-19-09  05:33am - 1740 days #20
kkman112 (12)
Active User

Posts: 56
Registered: Mar 31, '07
Location: United States
Originally Posted by OneMan:

Hi Again Rick,

The problem with "suspending" reviews on "dodgy" companies, is that poeple are then unaware of the problems !

I feel that TheBestPorn.com and PornUsers.com sites, should have a clearly marked section, where a list of sites that are using unacceptable practices, can be listed, with full details of "problems" therein.


I was going to say the same thing and have to second this. At the very least prevent reviews from being posted, leave the site on here but in big bold letters: "THIS SITE HAS BEEN SUSPENDED FOR REPORTED ILLICIT BILLING PRACTICES". It would help out a lot. I think the site "chat" section should still be allowed.

07-20-09  10:22am - 1739 days #21
Rick
PornUsers Staff




Posts: 382
Registered: Jan 05, '07
Location: Las Vegas, NV
I don't disagree with you guys on this, but we have to be extremely careful on how we handle each situation. We don't have a legal team like most of these large programs (especially the aggressive billing ones), so we try to play it as safe as possible.

The industry looks at our sites as a respectable credibility reference for programs and companies in the biz. If we make serious allegations like "illicit billing practices" even if they were just reported to us, these companies will come after us, almost guaranteed. We would of course have to be prepared to defend ourself and prove such allegations. All this is very new, so we're taking it step by step until we're better prepared.

So for now, we're open to shutting the doors to companies we feel are engaging in illegal or grossly unethical business practices with the message "We have reserved our right not to do business with this company at this time.". We still allow users to write reviews and comments on the site, but simply don't link or review them ourselves. You'd think this was a good safe way to approach the situation, but even this has caused us a lot of grief and legal threats.

The users speak the most volume and have the most voice. Whether visitors are reading TBP or PU, all incoming traffic and clearly read warnings or experiences posted by users. If we get too involved, then it really becomes war, a whole different game that we weren't prepared for when we started PornUsers. A war that we might be willing to fight harder at some point, but it's just not as easy as it looks. The Best Porn - Ultimate Consumer Guide to Porn
Porn Users - Porn Review by the People
Ranks.com, Inc., Chief/Founder

07-21-09  07:14pm - 1737 days #22
GCode (101)
Active User



Posts: 358
Registered: Feb 23, '09
Location: USA
Rick, honestly, I believe the system already set in place is fine enough. I trust TBP and PU'ers enough that if you post a wish to not do business on top of comments and reviews from users, I get a clear enough picture that a site is shady. Of course, there are legal aspects involved when shaming a site for whatever reasons, but this is pointless to do because I think the system in place speaks for itself when it comes to fair warnings about sites for others. Keep up the great work and thanks for everything, as usual.

07-22-09  01:40am - 1737 days #23
RagingBuddhist (63)
Active User



Posts: 823
Registered: Jan 23, '07
Unfortunately, with the state of business today, where it's more like trying to grab money by any means necessary rather than offer any real product or service, this is just the kind of thing that brings up the old adage, "Caveat emptor - Buyer beware!". I won't say I always read entire User Agreements when I go to sign up on a new site, but I definitely look for things like prechecks and the little security symbol in my browser before inputting personal information. If something does look out of place, but the site's content looks promising enough, then I will read the entire agreement and carefully check what all I'm clicking to see what's what. I forget what site it was, but there was one I wanted to sign up for but they weren't using encryption on the page where you enter your name, address and email. I sent them an email, asking why there was no encryption. I never got a response, so it was a just a no-go. Their loss. Arguing with some people is like trying to play chess with a pigeon - it knocks the pieces over, shits all over the board, then flies back to its flock to claim victory.

07-22-09  08:48am - 1737 days #24
nostromo (12)
Active User

Posts: 131
Registered: Sep 22, '07
Location: madrid/spain
Thanks for the heads up GCode. i'm sorry that this happened to you. Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

H.L. Mencken.

07-22-09  04:17pm - 1736 days #25
turboshaft (24)
Active User

Posts: 1,878
Registered: Apr 01, '08
Originally Posted by RagingBuddhist:


...I forget what site it was, but there was one I wanted to sign up for but they weren't using encryption on the page where you enter your name, address and email. I sent them an email, asking why there was no encryption. I never got a response, so it was a just a no-go. Their loss.


That's stupid; you would think the least a site would do is upload some image of a lock or a key or something in order to at least try and make you feel as if it was secure.

Some of these user agreements can sound a little odd when you actually read them, if only in order to make sense legally. That is, members usually agree to "use" sites for their own personal, adult interests. Sometimes they label them for entertainment or educational purposes (I have definitely been entertained and educated many times!), or simply that you are not some government stooge out to bust the fun of their free market filth. "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove

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