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Porn Users Forum » Do they really think we'll believe this ? ......C'mon!
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06-11-13  05:32pm - 533 days Original Post - #1
graymane (31)
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Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Do they really think we'll believe this ? ......C'mon!

I'm assuming this subject's been brought up previously, and no doubt expounded upon because it's so obviously phony and blatantly such an attack on our intelligence.

I'm referring to pay sites which would have us believe, seemingly out of the goodness of their hearts, that they're privileging us with automatic renewals for the sole purpose of relieving us the burden of going through another joining procedure.
Heaven forbid we'd forget to renew and have to repeat the agonizing process of joining all over again.

You don't suppose ......naah, couldn't be.
Well, then just let us play-like these pay sites use the auto renewal feature because chances are heavily in their favor you'll forget or fail to cancel on time ....thus dispensing another month charge from your credit account -- forwarded into the loving hand of those benign folk running your porn who want only the best for their members.

Sigh..... you gotta love'em.

06-11-13  06:15pm - 533 days #2
TheSquirrel (53)
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Posts: 693
Registered: Oct 29, '08
Location: UK
That one hasn't escaped me either. From the same people who brought you pre checked cross sales because they want to save you all that time and trouble over crossing the box, comes automatic renewal for your complete convenience and peace of mind lest, god forbid, you fail to remember to renew.

I remember the Clive James comment about never trusting anyone with a hair piece because the implication is you are too stupid to realise they are wearing one. Given the comments on some sites from porn fans, yes the ones who leave comments seem to be very young and of very low intelligence, and yes I do feel vastly superior to them. I am not surprised most of the sites treat their customers like imbeciles, because a lot of them clearly are.

For us here we have to ignore all the bad stuff to get some of the good stuff, but it's getting to be like a mine field of ever increasng con artistry and dirty tricks. Do I worry about ripping them off? No, fuck em. The way the industry is going and in the current climate of increasingly dodgy behaviour, I don't trust any of the bastards with my credit card details. Give me a decent site with decent management, that treats its customers with respect, and I'll show you a flying pig.

Yes we know it's bullshit about them renewing for our convenience, when it's just to make more money when we forget to cancel, but for them to pretend it's for our convenience rather than extra bucks, is such transparent lies, it makes me mistrust them even more. Edited on Jun 11, 2013, 06:20pm

06-11-13  06:24pm - 533 days #3
pat362 (371)
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Posts: 2,991
Registered: Jan 23, '07
Location: canada
Of course they do it because they know some people will forget to cancel on time. I should know because I've been one of those people. Of course I have no one to blame but myself since I knew I should cancel before a certain date and was simply too lazy to do it. Mind you, you don't forget to cancel a membership on times once you have been renewed to a site you didn't particularly care for. Long live the Brown Coats.

06-11-13  08:17pm - 533 days #4
graymane (31)
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Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


That one hasn't escaped me either. From the same people who brought you pre checked cross sales because they want to save you all that time and trouble over crossing the box, comes automatic renewal for your complete convenience and peace of mind lest, god forbid, you fail to remember to renew.

I remember the Clive James comment about never trusting anyone with a hair piece because the implication is you are too stupid to realise they are wearing one. Given the comments on some sites from porn fans, yes the ones who leave comments seem to be very young and of very low intelligence, and yes I do feel vastly superior to them. I am not surprised most of the sites treat their customers like imbeciles, because a lot of them clearly are.

For us here we have to ignore all the bad stuff to get some of the good stuff, but it's getting to be like a mine field of ever increasng con artistry and dirty tricks. Do I worry about ripping them off? No, fuck em. The way the industry is going and in the current climate of increasingly dodgy behaviour, I don't trust any of the bastards with my credit card details. Give me a decent site with decent management, that treats its customers with respect, and I'll show you a flying pig.

Yes we know it's bullshit about them renewing for our convenience, when it's just to make more money when we forget to cancel, but for them to pretend it's for our convenience rather than extra bucks, is such transparent lies, it makes me mistrust them even more.


Beautifully put, Squirrel .....
A post worthy of knighthood into ranting hall of fame.

06-11-13  08:42pm - 533 days #5
graymane (31)
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Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by pat362:


Of course they do it because they know some people will forget to cancel on time. I should know because I've been one of those people. Of course I have no one to blame but myself since I knew I should cancel before a certain date and was simply too lazy to do it. Mind you, you don't forget to cancel a membership on times once you have been renewed to a site you didn't particularly care for.


Thanks for commenting, Pat .......your replies always adds that touch of professionalism that we can always use.

06-12-13  05:30am - 533 days #6
TheSquirrel (53)
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Posts: 693
Registered: Oct 29, '08
Location: UK
Maybe we should all download for free, then send sites an email telling them that we are downloading for free to relieve them of the burden of processing our credit card details, and paying all those costly customer services representatives. I'd hate to think all that work is getting to them and leading to early death from heart attacks induced by stress.

Another thing that may keep them awake at night, as they are so considerate and caring, is the possibility customers are not getting good value for money. Don't worry, when you download for free, you are.

06-12-13  05:53am - 533 days #7
graymane (31)
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Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


Maybe we should all download for free, then send sites an email telling them that we are downloading for free to relieve them of the burden of processing our credit card details, and paying all those costly customer services representatives. I'd hate to think all that work is getting to them and leading to early death from heart attacks induced by stress.

Another thing that may keep them awake at night, as they are so considerate and caring, is the possibility customers are not getting good value for money. Don't worry, when you download for free, you are.



Ever thought of doing some stand-up? .......I think you'd bring down the house.

06-12-13  07:12am - 533 days #8
jberryl69 (12)
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Posts: 1,000
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Location: neverland
Most sites I don't want to stay a member of beyond the 30 period I cancel the day after I join because the normal business model suggests that you have purchased a 30 day membership and even though you've cancelled, your membership remains open until the end of the purchase period - so forgetting to cancel is on the buyer.

The fact that the provider tells you up front they are going to renew your membership if you don't cancel is basically a good business model. No favors intended but rather keep the revenue streaming.

I would think that every participating pornusers member would know this. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

06-12-13  07:37am - 533 days #9
TheSquirrel (53)
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Location: UK
Originally Posted by graymane:



Ever thought of doing some stand-up? .......I think you'd bring down the house.


Thanks gray one, and thanks for bringing this up because it makes my teeth grate every time I see it.

JBerry said "The fact that the provider tells you up front they are going to renew your membership if you don't cancel is basically a good business model. No favors intended but rather keep the revenue streaming.

I would think that every participating pornusers member would know this."

Yes, agreed, but it's the pretence they are doing it for your convenience that makes my teeth grate.

Thank you for bringing this up Graymane because it illustrates the industry attitude, and is the reason I have the attitude I have, towards the industry. If they treat us all like idiots on the lower end of the food chain to be exploited at will, they cannot be trusted. Edited on Jun 12, 2013, 07:41am

06-12-13  07:51am - 533 days #10
jberryl69 (12)
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Posts: 1,000
Registered: Nov 27, '10
Location: neverland
Well Squirrel, the porn industry isn't the only corporate suit that thinks it consumers are on the low end of the intelligent food chain. While you might think that the porn industry is couching it in insulting term, I wonder if you were the marketing honcho for them, how you would present it?

I look at it more of, it is what it is, which is typical of maketing (and you have to admit, it is marketing).

Who re-bills on a regular basis? Almost anything you get on monthly reoccurring basis. While with most you have to sign up for that privilege and almost all push for it, the porn industry just couches it in different perspective. Most payment plans like that - phone, insurance I don't trust, but sometimes you have little say about it.

If I have any complaint, it's more with how corporations govern our lives, not so much how they present the bitter pill. Oh, fuck "If".... it is my major complaint outside my deteriorating body. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

06-12-13  09:05am - 533 days #11
TheSquirrel (53)
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Location: UK
Originally Posted by jberryl69:


If I have any complaint, it's more with how corporations govern our lives, not so much how they present the bitter pill. Oh, fuck "If".... it is my major complaint outside my deteriorating body.


Oh I have plenty of complaints, but that one goes top of the list. What goes for the porn industry goes for big business too. As far as I'm concerned you can lump Nike, Barclays, and McDonalds in with porn sites and general scumbags I can't stand and don't trust. Wouldn't most big corporations just love to be in the same bracket as sleaze ball degenerate scumbags? They are.

06-12-13  10:52am - 533 days #12
jberryl69 (12)
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Location: neverland
To add to the discussion of what really pisses me off about porn companies and specifically the trolls at Evil Angel, and though I understand it's another stream of income, is the selling of my personal information to the scumbag spammers and phishing butt wipes. Though I've flagged a bunch of them and they go directly into my spam folder, wayyyyyy too many of them end up in my Inbox - more than I get get for regular accepted mail. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

06-12-13  11:06am - 533 days #13
Cybertoad (104)
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Posts: 2,084
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I cancel my accounts the next day after joining.
Pay for the month and it expires in 30 days. I do this for the exact reason of the clever and sneaky way they grab my money LOL Gone For Awhile ! Be Safe !

06-12-13  12:12pm - 533 days #14
Wittyguy (95)
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Posts: 1,064
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Location: Left Coast, USA
Yes, the world of pay porn that we travel in seems to be getting murkier. I don't necessarily blame companies for auto rebills (I bet they make a lot of money off of those from people who just forget) but I do think they need to tell people this. Most of the disclosures occur in the fine print details of the subscription agreement which most people don't read. However, I note that there are other "mainstream" sites I belong to that don't really disclose repeat billing procedures without digging through the b.s. in the terms and conditions disclosure.

Another issue I see cropping up is that a lot of sites now seem to require that you cancel at least 7 days before your subscription expires (again, the fine print). No reason do this given the state of technology other than to trap the unwary. So, like many others here, I don't waste any time between signing up and cancelling, especially with trials, so I don't get caught in any of these traps.

Lastly, we all get pelted with spam from endless other sites and scammers once we sign up. I wonder how much of this is actually sold, given that all the buyer gets is an email address and the fact you joined a porn site, and how much is just shared between companies so they can pursue you (your scratch my back and I'll scratch yours). I guess I don't pay as much attention to the privacy issues now that I know everything I do online is being read by a low level techno geek with top security clearance waiting for the chance to expose me to the media.

06-12-13  03:11pm - 532 days #15
biker (5)
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Location: milwaukee, wi
From the first time I entered the realm of internet porn this has been the practice. Once burned by it I knew to cancel my subscription early if I planned to leave. Some get tricky as to where they keep their cancellation button. There is never a big obvious banner on their homepage that screams "Cancel".

I have also learned that if a site does not show you their recent updates when you explore it before subscribing, they probably don't update very often or are not updating anymore.

One of the reasons I use TBP is they warn you of a sites practices, like crosschecking and limited updates. I aim to misbehave

06-12-13  05:23pm - 532 days #16
graymane (31)
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Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Another point to consider supporting the notion porn peddlers want us to believe auto renewal is in our best interest, done for our convenience, and certainly no shade of a ploy to keep the meter running.

The point I'm referring to:
for those (like me) who simply just want to pay for a month, and decide for myself whether to stay on or not, they do offer you that option .......
[BUT GUESS WHAT? ..... SURPRISE, SURPRISE .... WHY THEY JACK UP THE PRICE, NATURALLYxl].

06-12-13  06:04pm - 532 days #17
skunk (0)
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Location: UK/london
The best thing to do is not use the sites that do that, if you like thing to change it takes time but when there money drops they will change thing. http://www.sexxximps.com

06-15-13  07:04am - 530 days #18
Cybertoad (104)
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Posts: 2,084
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Location: Wash
I writing, and idiots guide to buying porn Gone For Awhile ! Be Safe !

07-30-13  04:13pm - 484 days #19
diip (0)
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Posts: 13
Registered: Jun 13, '13
Let me throw in my two cents...

Just look at clean and simplified schema:
- Customer and his bank (aka card holder);
- Regulator (aka Visa, MasterCard, etc);
- Billing company, processing (e.g. CCBill, Verotel);
- Company, checkout (aka pay[porn]site).

1) Billing company is offering different processing options to paysite owner, generally based on monthly transaction count or on monthly turnover. As more transaction count (or turnover) as less processing fee. Billing company is also offering different cross-sales and rebill tools, and be sure, that that tools were insistently advertised to the paysite owner. And at this step it is really forbidden to think that someone could forget about his wallet.

Fees:
- Montly from "free" to $xxxx;
- Per each transaction from "free" or few bucks up to 15%;
- security hold per each transaction from zero to 10%.

Anyway, billing company takes 10% (in average) from each transaction.

2) Naturally, the paysite owner is not thinking about the customer who could forget to unsubscribe, he is thinking about the customer who could forget to re-subscribe... Just because it is not very easy (and even too expensive) to get new legit customer. And he is afraid that signup process could be boring, that is why the rebilling feature looks as a quite good solution for him.

3) I think that hiding the "cancel membership" button is bad practice, and ultimately useless. Why? Because the customer could always get his money back without any help from "24/356 customer support" of the paysite or billing, just by contacting his bank during the 180 days from bill date. And as a result paysite and billing will be penalized by regulator for this accident. If there are more than 2-5% of such accidents, billing company have to pay serious forfeit. This also affects the paysite, and it could be totally banned by billing company (and other billing companies).
BUT in the same time if the customer is known for requesting his money back on a regular basis, billing company should blacklist him (and other billing companies could decline his credit cards in future too). So that is why fair subscribe/unsubscribe process is beneficial for all sides.

Bottom line.
Sometimes, paysite is trying to use all scope of available banking tools, without noticing that these methods could be questionable. Sometimes, paysite offers the game: like one month subscription fee costs $34.99, when monthly membership costs $29.99... (allowing the customer to unsubscribe just after signing). And yes, sad but true, sometimes, paysite is deliberately cheating -

07-31-13  02:35am - 484 days #20
PeterPram (0)
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Posts: 1
Registered: Jul 31, '13
Location: texas
Originally Posted by graymane:


I'm assuming this subject's been brought up previously, and no doubt expounded upon because it's so obviously phony and blatantly such an attack on our intelligence.

I'm referring to pay sites which would have us believe, seemingly out of the goodness of their hearts, that they're privileging us with automatic renewals for the sole purpose of relieving us the burden of going through another joining procedure.
Heaven forbid we'd forget to renew and have to repeat the agonizing process of joining all over again.

You don't suppose ......naah, couldn't be.
Well, then just let us play-like these pay sites use the auto renewal feature because chances are heavily in their favor you'll forget or fail to cancel on time ....thus dispensing another month charge from your credit account -- forwarded into the loving hand of those benign folk running your porn who want only the best for their members.

Sigh..... you gotta love'em.

I remember the Clive James comment about never trusting anyone with a hair piece because the implication is you are too stupid to realise they are wearing one. Given the comments on some sites from porn fans, yes the ones who leave comments seem to be very young and of very low intelligence, and yes I do feel vastly superior to them. I am not surprised most of the sites treat their customers like imbeciles, because a lot of them clearly are.

07-31-13  08:30am - 484 days #21
Cybertoad (104)
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Posts: 2,084
Registered: Jan 01, '08
Location: Wash
Originally Posted by PeterPram:


I remember the Clive James comment about never trusting anyone with a hair piece because the implication is you are too stupid to realise they are wearing one. Given the comments on some sites from porn fans, yes the ones who leave comments seem to be very young and of very low intelligence, and yes I do feel vastly superior to them. I am not surprised most of the sites treat their customers like imbeciles, because a lot of them clearly are.


I would tend to agree, what forums I would visit sounds like teenage boys. Look Boobies type thing I stopped reading most of them, maybe they get off on it thinking the model will read it and want to have them alone or something. Gone For Awhile ! Be Safe !

07-31-13  06:59pm - 483 days #22
graymane (31)
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Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by diip:


Let me throw in my two cents...

Just look at clean and simplified schema:
- Customer and his bank (aka card holder);
- Regulator (aka Visa, MasterCard, etc);
- Billing company, processing (e.g. CCBill, Verotel);
- Company, checkout (aka pay[porn]site).

1) Billing company is offering different processing options to paysite owner, generally based on monthly transaction count or on monthly turnover. As more transaction count (or turnover) as less processing fee. Billing company is also offering different cross-sales and rebill tools, and be sure, that that tools were insistently advertised to the paysite owner. And at this step it is really forbidden to think that someone could forget about his wallet.

Fees:
- Montly from "free" to $xxxx;
- Per each transaction from "free" or few bucks up to 15%;
- security hold per each transaction from zero to 10%.

Anyway, billing company takes 10% (in average) from each transaction.

2) Naturally, the paysite owner is not thinking about the customer who could forget to unsubscribe, he is thinking about the customer who could forget to re-subscribe... Just because it is not very easy (and even too expensive) to get new legit customer. And he is afraid that signup process could be boring, that is why the rebilling feature looks as a quite good solution for him.

3) I think that hiding the "cancel membership" button is bad practice, and ultimately useless. Why? Because the customer could always get his money back without any help from "24/356 customer support" of the paysite or billing, just by contacting his bank during the 180 days from bill date. And as a result paysite and billing will be penalized by regulator for this accident. If there are more than 2-5% of such accidents, billing company have to pay serious forfeit. This also affects the paysite, and it could be totally banned by billing company (and other billing companies).
BUT in the same time if the customer is known for requesting his money back on a regular basis, billing company should blacklist him (and other billing companies could decline his credit cards in future too). So that is why fair subscribe/unsubscribe process is beneficial for all sides.

Bottom line.
Sometimes, paysite is trying to use all scope of available banking tools, without noticing that these methods could be questionable. Sometimes, paysite offers the game: like one month subscription fee costs $34.99, when monthly membership costs $29.99... (allowing the customer to unsubscribe just after signing). And yes, sad but true, sometimes, paysite is deliberately cheating


Let me first say, Diip, that I have read every line of prose you've summited to this thread, and done so with a great deal of interest and measured admiration -- following these superlatives, however, I have to tell you that I'm completely clueless as to your point.

That is to say I've yet to determine whether you're supporting my rant against the practice of automatic renewals, accompanied by the mindset behind its orchestration, or to some degree steadfastly on the side of the Websites that enthusiastically uses the automatic features.
If you choose to reply, and its my wish that you do, I would appeal to you breaking down all your thoughtful and very appreciated input with an either/or explanation of where you stand.

Thanks again for gracing this thread with your comments.

08-01-13  02:19pm - 482 days #23
diip (0)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 13
Registered: Jun 13, '13
Dear Graymane,

As a developer with wide experience I could not be for or against the tools, but I am against their thoughtless or intentionally wrong usage. I am also trying to sort out the "problem", because very often "mistakes" are cumulative. And I just trying to show, that not only paysite is "guilty" solely. And as you can see many companies are using the same tools:
- because the competitor does (blind copy paste of the business model);
- because it is known industry standard;
- because there is no alternative.

Regulator business is:
- offer some virtual money instead of real money;
- offer something real special;
- suppress the competitors;
- find MORE customers [banks] and keep existing.

Banking business is:
- offer some standard and needed services;
- offer something real special [e.g. fees];
- suppress the competitors;
- find MORE customers [paysites] and keep existing.

Paysite business is:
- offer something [special];
- suppress the competitors;
- find MORE customers and keep existing.

Customer business is:
- spend money;
- generate MORE money [and try to save existing];

I tried to keep this list very simple, in order to highlight just only one aspect. So again, billing company is just another customer of regulator, paysite is just another customer of billing, and final user is a customer of the paysite. And here, everyone shifts all penalties and risks to own customer. Now, it is time to say, that you are paying your money directly to billing and in real-time... (BUT only if everything is okay your money [and money from other customers as well] are going to be available to the paysite at the end of the period, say once a week)...
Please, think about complicated billing system, where you have to pay (e.g.):
fixed $0.5 + 1.5% per each transaction.
Do you see now who likes the "rebills" too?


===

I developed few known websites in the past, and later was asked to become a webmaster of some of them. I also did the customer support and was known to reply for every single email (there were not so much correspondence). I discovered that generally people were shocked because of the fact of getting the prompt and hope helpful reply. Even pretty rude emails were not ignored; as a result may be the most messaged me back with apologies and gratitude.

I told people whether they could expect an awaited update during the current subscription period. How to fix some software or hardware problems. Some people send me their artworks. Once, I had got an email, where the customer asked me to unsubscribe him from the site, because he was fired an need to spare his money for a while (I checked his stats, he was a member for more than 3 years). I back to him with two statements: that we will never bill his credit card anymore, and second, that he is our valued member with lifetime membership granted. Later he told me that he found the better job, and already re-subscribed to the site.

Sure, there were few crafty guys. But customer support was something like bonus for me. Later I understand that inside our company I am only the one who is thinking about the customers, about the audience. Company thought about cheaper content, more affiliates, more sales. I also talked to people from other companies, and some of them were saying that they even do not bother to check their mailboxes, because they are happy with sales...

I felt myself cheated. If you are creative person, an artist, the highest honor for you is a full house and ovations [FEEDBACK!!!]. And money is always the helper to go forward and to create, to make your viewer happy. But if it is just a business, it is all around the making money only. That's why I escaped that business.

I am making my own project. Even launched it already (sure, it is not as great as it should be). BUT I have to say that getting very first and patient customers in natural way is may be the hardest thing. And I am understanding how "rebills" could be helpful. One of the big reason -- "Rebills" is a GREAT tool for attracting affiliates! Do you know how affiliate model works?.. -

08-01-13  02:47pm - 482 days #24
diip (0)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 13
Registered: Jun 13, '13
I just re-read my writings, and I am not sure now that my position is visible enough. So, as a dev guy, I am tolerant to the rebill and any other tool itself. But as a "site owner" I prefer to create a trustworthy relationships with the customer, because ultimately my project could progress just only with the mutual support of the customer. And people could be patient, could be friendly, could forgive mistakes (if they are sure that I am working and making all possible to solve them). I do not want to make "new sales" forever, I prefer to build intelligent community around the project, and allow members to participate. -

08-01-13  05:51pm - 482 days #25
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
My heartfelt appreciation, diip, for what I can hopefully conclude is a valiant effort on your part to help us to better understand where you're coming from.

Based on this (your) latter posting, I'm optimistically venturing a theory that your emphasis bares mostly on your strong convictions (as a webmaster) as to how you're playing out your role, as such, to initiate some propriety and demonstrate an honorable status in an industry which otherwise is rife with hanky-panky, wheeling an' dealing, and takes the prize for detouring from the "straight and narrow" while leading the pack in a race (where anything goes) for the almighty dollar ...... It's the American dream, don't you know?
If that's the case, I can only predict if you stay on the straight and narrow -- navigating an up-hill battle while working your way around the wreckage of prior, failed predecessor's high hopes -- that your labors could defeat mainstream adversaries and justify a favorable end.

I wish you the best of luck, diip.

But meanwhile, We invite you to stick around..... schmooze with PU's heavyweights, an' making yourself right at home while imparting some of your treasured knowledge to our gang here at PU.

We also have a hangout for webmasters. You name it -- we got it.

08-02-13  06:06am - 482 days #26
diip (0)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 13
Registered: Jun 13, '13
I infinitely appreciate so warm welcome. My sporadically reading of porn users inspired me in the past to start my creation. I was ashamed about the situation (I am talking here not about the whole industry, I am talking about the local company). It was always something close to HYIP, but never to make something stable and perfect. And I already told you that there was not so much respect between models, cameramen, developers, partners and customers. They were all replaceable parts of strange money making machine; fake [smile] was one of the "industry standard" here. While reading user reviews I saw that some people are concentrating on amount and quality of the content, some on the price or discounts, there were many words about that people just do not want to be deceived, but as developer I was happy with "well designed, easy to use". Yes, I was genuinely happy when someone noticed my visible part of the work. So, this board is helpful and valuable for me for a long period of time.

And thank you for your wishes, I am taking them seriously. While working on my project I met people and we had long chatting about the concept. Once I've got a letter with the composed text for my project. I post it on my about[.me] page, and next day I've got another letter with thanks. The author could not believe his eyes, as the text was published. But why not if I liked his writings, the essential of our previous conversations?

My project was launched. It is not perfect and some of "user" functions were cut or in development or even still on the paper. I still need to optimize some internal processes, etc. From one side I extremely need audience, my core users (I have zero advertisement budget, no affiliate program, no sales page, so it could not be introduced here). At this stage all possible income is going to be invested in new lenses, future updates and developments. I was thinking about monetization. And that is why I was re-researching existing methods and tools. I prefer honest and kindly relationships. And I end up that if people like the site, they will support it. I do not want any type of "forgotten" money, I want money that people invest in my project consciously and hope with love. Eventually, I do not want to drive "business" because of the "business". From other side big work was already done, and this is just the beginning.

Probably, I have to contact pornusers administration with the proposal to run some sort of the contest here, and offering membership to my site as a gift for the winners. But I am not sure that this idea is good, because my site is more likely just about naked girls (not porn), and I have not so much sets to offer. It is not ready for the review, because the project is young. Most prefer to spectate but not participate. I am honest to myself, people will review what they see and not what I am saying about future plans.

And here is a dilemma. I need some sort of kickstart to make the wheels spin faster. It seems impossible without some aggressive marketing. And at this point many of us... are finding affiliate marketing and "rebills" (based on "forgetfulness") pretty nice solution. There is no other more effective way to spread the stuff around the world. Many good and authentic sites were closed just because of lack of the members or lack of their activity The main problem that people who create, could not promote themselves, because they are very self-critical, and pay all their time to creation, they are concentrating on improving but not on ostentation. That is also why many creative people do not heed [or accept] the critics... it naturally hurts them.

PS
@graymane, I just read other latest topics on the board... and they made me speechless. I am wishing you to recover. I am holding my fists about you from now. And I realize that PU is a real home for you, and your warm welcome message to your home makes deep sense for me. And if you have nothing against just photosets of girls, I would be happy if you take a gift from me. - Edited on Aug 02, 2013, 06:12am

08-02-13  09:41am - 482 days #27
diip (0)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 13
Registered: Jun 13, '13
I think that I came up with a solution about recurring billing. Lets assume that the rebilling service itself is not bad, and the negative factor for the customer is that his card could be billed because of "forgetfulness". This way, we eliminating the knowingly unfair and manipulative variants of misuse of this service. So it is not very hard to implement something like this algo:

(action) customer subscribed to the site but never login or login once or there was no real activity detected.
(effect) unconditional refund at the end of the paid period, because it was probably CC fraud. I have to say that this feature is already implemented in many systems [its was done to avoid chargeback penalties].

(action) customer subscribed to the site, and using it in a normal way.
(effect) system ask him a permission to bill his card for the next period. No positive answer means no rebill.

(action) customer subscribed to the site, and using it in a normal way, but did not login for the latest period...
(effect) See previous... No positive answer means no rebill. -

08-02-13  02:34pm - 481 days #28
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
diip, as we say here in the US ..."you're a real piece of work." (an that would be in a complimentary context)

To be honest with you, my friend, and for the life of me, I'm simply unable to decipher but a fraction of much you've said (voluminous as it is, suffused as it is with impressively Noble intent, and plainly marked with an energized eloquence) all that but the plot is still simply flying over my head.

But don't let that deter you, diip.. You're a fun guy and joy to read.

08-02-13  03:40pm - 481 days #29
diip (0)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 13
Registered: Jun 13, '13
I am very sorry. I know, that my writing is far from perfect.

Here is a brief of what was said before:
- Billing prefers big amount of transactions;
- Billing offers different tools and marketing schemas;
- Site is using these schemas [blindly];
- Every new site is interested in getting new customers.

And my long emotional explanation of reasons why...
they are using "rebills" without malice. In the same time I avoided to talk about deliberate scam.

Later, I came up with a solution of how regular "rebill" schema could be improved to become more customer friendly.

That's all.


@graymane,
oh... and let me know whether you accept a gift from me or not. -

08-02-13  04:15pm - 481 days #30
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
diip, as we say here in the US ..."you're a real piece of work." (an that would be in a complimentary context)

To be honest with you, my friend, and for the life of me, I'm simply unable to decipher but a fraction of much you've said (voluminous as it is, suffused as it is with impressively Noble intent, and plainly marked with an energized eloquence) all that .. but the plot is still simply flying over my head.

But don't let that deter you, diip.. You're a fun guy and joy to read.

08-02-13  06:25pm - 481 days #31
pat362 (371)
Active User



Posts: 2,991
Registered: Jan 23, '07
Location: canada
I think an amazing option would be if sites sent out an email a week or so before the membership is about to end to ask the customer if he wants to rebill or cancel. This way they could bypass the rebill or no rebill option on their join page and they could get a better feel on the way their customer feels about the site if they add an option for comments on the cancel page. There is already one but I don't think it every gets back to anyone who cares about the answer. They certainly have never contacted me when I told them I was displeased with something. Long live the Brown Coats.

08-02-13  07:32pm - 481 days #32
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Well guess what, giip? Your last entry came in loud and clear. A panoramic marvel worthy of devouring with hearty gusto .... if that makes any sense!
I cannot find enough praise nor thanks anywhere near that I could award you for your very enlighten and comprehensive token to this thread. You have lifted it from mundane to spectacular.
As we say here in the US .... "you'da man!"
Now get yourself a room here at Porn Users Hotel and jump right into the fray.
And as far as your "writing not being so perfect"
with a vocabulary as impressive as yours .... who the hell cares?

Looking forward to having you sitting at the head of our table just being your majestic self while you regale us about those behind the door antics going on in the world of pay porn.

And Oh yes, mister diip .....I would be supremely honored to receive the gift you've so graciously offered.
Don't be a stranger my good man. Stick around. Edited on Aug 02, 2013, 07:37pm

08-03-13  04:26am - 481 days #33
Nasos (2)
Active User

Posts: 19
Registered: Aug 03, '13
Location: Greece
Nice info on this thread. I had an experience with the NaughtyAmerica site.

I had made a 1month subscription and that was the 1st paysite I was being a part of. I was browsing around to their "Special Offers" page and saw what they had about "Tonigh'sGirlfriend". I click on the join now button, thinking that it would take me to another page,show me all the terms and costs, ask me for some credit card detail for confirmation etc... but they instantly billed me for a monthly recurring membership.

Unacceptable in my opinion. I immediately contacted the billing company and got a refund, but this is bad. Plus, with all the hacking of porn paysite accounts that is taking place these days, what would happen if someone got ahold of my account and start ordering stuff left and right? That just comes to add to the bad practice list mentioned above. English is not my first language but I'm trying my best.

08-22-13  05:29pm - 461 days #34
Simarimas (1)
Active Webmaster




Posts: 75
Registered: Nov 05, '11
Location: dallas Texas
Went through this thread, and got me thinking quite a bit.

I currently have rebill on my site. It is necessary because I offer a trial period, and in order to do so, rebill is the only way the trial works.

Which is preferable? The trial period, or no rebill?


I do have the ability to send out an email to subscribers a week before as a reminder, that they are about to be billed. Would this be an acceptable solution? Webmaster/Owner www.SeeMeTease.com amateur modeling site

08-22-13  11:00pm - 461 days #35
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by Simarimas:


Went through this thread, and got me thinking quite a bit.

I currently have rebill on my site. It is necessary because I offer a trial period, and in order to do so, rebill is the only way the trial works.

Which is preferable? The trial period, or no rebill?


I do have the ability to send out an email to subscribers a week before as a reminder, that they are about to be billed. Would this be an acceptable solution?


I've got the answer, pure and simple, and it jives with your last words:
Just give us an up=front option to simply pay for one month, period..... (without, I SAY WITHOUT, discouraging the use of that option by saddling us with a stingingly higher rate,
Higher because the odds are a favorably given that raising the price will sway the payee from opting that route and fall into the auto-rebilling rut.
Yes, it'll bite into the sites profits, but it clearly tells us they at least have scruples ..... an honorable quality woefully lacking in those unyielding greed-hogs who ain't about to rock the boat by adopting anything that'll threaten the status quo.

Approaching the deadline, if we wanna stay on for another month we authorize the site to extract the funds from our credit card.... what's so hard about that?
You see, these pay sites give themselves away by making that option a difficult choice. Edited on Aug 22, 2013, 11:08pm

08-23-13  04:33am - 461 days #36
Simarimas (1)
Active Webmaster




Posts: 75
Registered: Nov 05, '11
Location: dallas Texas
Message received, thank you for the input sir.

Would it be best practice then to have 3 levels of billing? One month, at the normal rate, 3 months at a slightly reduced rate, and 6 months at a lower rate still, all non recurring? Webmaster/Owner www.SeeMeTease.com amateur modeling site

08-23-13  08:51am - 461 days #37
Denner (233)
Active User



Posts: 1,201
Registered: Mar 03, '07
Location: Denmark
Dear Sir graymane.....this user appreciate your persistence in this matter. "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle"

08-23-13  01:08pm - 461 days #38
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by Simarimas:


Message received, thank you for the input sir.

Would it be best practice then to have 3 levels of billing? One month, at the normal rate, 3 months at a slightly reduced rate, and 6 months at a lower rate still, all non recurring?


Its your call,Simarimas] ... I have no problem with rebilling as long as it includes an equally visible option to pay as you go.
I hasten to add that I think I speak for all of us here by casting a hardy salute to your positive reply.]
Now if only your contemporaries would follow suit.

I sincerely hope this news sinks in among our PU crowd, reciprocally making it happily worth your while.

And Thanks, sir , for showing us your interest by posting in our forum.

08-23-13  02:12pm - 460 days #39
Simarimas (1)
Active Webmaster




Posts: 75
Registered: Nov 05, '11
Location: dallas Texas
Well thank you sir, but the pleasure is mine. I only wish I had become involved on the forums sooner. I never expected to find as nice, helpul, or informative a group as is here.

After thinking on this I believe I may offer both options. Nothing wrong with options.

I do see a substantial site modification in my near future, from all the information I have gotten from PU.

Cheers to you, and all of PU. Webmaster/Owner www.SeeMeTease.com amateur modeling site

08-23-13  03:52pm - 460 days #40
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Do I hear an Amen on that last post, fellow Porn--users?

08-23-13  04:47pm - 460 days #41
Cybertoad (104)
Active User



Posts: 2,084
Registered: Jan 01, '08
Location: Wash
Originally Posted by graymane:


Its your call,Simarimas] ... I have no problem with rebilling as long as it includes an equally visible option to pay as you go.
I hasten to add that I think I speak for all of us .
And Thanks, sir , for showing us your interest by posting in our forum.


I agree as well GM, billing length should be optional as the content not billing should make a person come back again next month.
people like to windows shop and options that allow this to be done are very helpful. I join I guess 3outta 5 are less then 2 months. And the option to leave when I wanted was helpful. Those who did not force me to have to stay longer then I wanted, also saw me as a returning customer. Gone For Awhile ! Be Safe !

08-23-13  06:41pm - 460 days #42
Simarimas (1)
Active Webmaster




Posts: 75
Registered: Nov 05, '11
Location: dallas Texas
For the non recurring billing cycles, would you be appreciative, or annoyed, by a reminder email, that the subscription is about to expire? Webmaster/Owner www.SeeMeTease.com amateur modeling site

08-23-13  09:43pm - 460 days #43
Cybertoad (104)
Active User



Posts: 2,084
Registered: Jan 01, '08
Location: Wash
Originally Posted by Simarimas:


For the non recurring billing cycles, would you be appreciative, or annoyed, by a reminder email, that the subscription is about to expire?


I think reminders are fine, a site being helpful people like, a site making it difficult not so much. Gone For Awhile ! Be Safe !

08-23-13  10:16pm - 460 days #44
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by Simarimas:


For the non recurring billing cycles, would you be appreciative, or annoyed, by a reminder email, that the subscription is about to expire?


I think the word "ecstatic" best fits your inquiry.
Unthinkable by most of your counterparts in this "either fish or cut bate" industry ....... Indeed, the reminder term is the most refreshing idea since sliced bread.
I personally don't think you can go wrong with that one.

However, one has to weigh the possibility of another payroll check to dole out at week's end.
Scratch the webmaster, he's already got a full plate.

08-24-13  05:24am - 460 days #45
Simarimas (1)
Active Webmaster




Posts: 75
Registered: Nov 05, '11
Location: dallas Texas
Originally Posted by Cybertoad:


I think reminders are fine, a site being helpful people like, a site making it difficult not so much.


Originally Posted by graymane:


I think the word "ecstatic" best fits your inquiry.
Unthinkable by most of your counterparts in this "either fish or cut bate" industry ....... Indeed, the reminder term is the most refreshing idea since sliced bread.
I personally don't think you can go wrong with that one.

However, one has to weigh the possibility of another payroll check to dole out at week's end.
Scratch the webmaster, he's already got a full plate.


Thank you both, more wonderful information. I never really considered the reminder before getting into this thread, but the more I read about the rebills, and non recurring payments, etc. I also believe that is the way to go. I always thought it would be seen as more spam, than a friendly reminder. Though I suppose that would still be in the eye of the beholder. Webmaster/Owner www.SeeMeTease.com amateur modeling site

08-24-13  05:51am - 460 days #46
Cybertoad (104)
Active User



Posts: 2,084
Registered: Jan 01, '08
Location: Wash
Originally Posted by Simarimas:


Thank you both, more wonderful information. I never really considered the reminder before getting into this thread, but the more I read about the rebills, and non recurring payments, etc. I also believe that is the way to go. I always thought it would be seen as more spam, than a friendly reminder. Though I suppose that would still be in the eye of the beholder.


You could even say in the checkout would you like a reminder and notice of special deals ? Gone For Awhile ! Be Safe !

08-24-13  06:15am - 460 days #47
Simarimas (1)
Active Webmaster




Posts: 75
Registered: Nov 05, '11
Location: dallas Texas
Originally Posted by Cybertoad:


You could even say in the checkout would you like a reminder and notice of special deals ?


Wonderful idea. I will have to see if that is something I can implement. Thank you sir!! Webmaster/Owner www.SeeMeTease.com amateur modeling site

08-24-13  01:21pm - 460 days #48
Thedebilman666 (0)
Suspended



Posts: 144
Registered: Dec 08, '10
Location: NYC
All these things could simply be avoided if the customer took some responsibility. Didn't uncheck a box while joining up and you wound up joining two sites, your fault. Got rebilled again because you didn't cancel your membership, your fault. Didn't read the fine print and got charged extra, your fault. Should've taken two minutes out of your day to find out what you're spending your $ on so if you get taken for a ride, 99% of the time it's 100% your fault 6 pack bitches, deal with it

08-24-13  03:04pm - 459 days #49
graymane (31)
Active User



Posts: 1,350
Registered: Feb 20, '10
Location: Virginia
Originally Posted by Thedebilman666:


All these things could simply be avoided if the customer took some responsibility. Didn't uncheck a box while joining up and you wound up joining two sites, your fault. Got rebilled again because you didn't cancel your membership, your fault. Didn't read the fine print and got charged extra, your fault. Should've taken two minutes out of your day to find out what you're spending your $ on so if you get taken for a ride, 99% of the time it's 100% your fault


THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR. PERFECT!
I feel so liberated now having learned any mistakes made pertinent to this topic was solely my fault.
I think it only justifiable, for this egregious lapse of judgment, that I offer the offended sites a formal apology.

08-24-13  03:26pm - 459 days #50
Capn (28)
Active User



Posts: 1,699
Registered: Sep 05, '09
Location: Near the Beer!
I think that was just standard internet trolling.

Pay it no mind.

Show me someone who claims never to have made a mistake & I will show you a fool & a liar.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

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