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01-14-13  07:37pm - 561 days Original Post - #1
jberryl69 (12)
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In defense of Tube sites

Ok, if anything, this subject could catch a lot of flak.

While I think the general rule is "we don't use tube sites", it strikes me that probably "most, some, a few, none" use tube sites.

I do.

In my defense, I don't do it for repeated use as means to view porn, but rather to find scenes that I find worth purchasing. Why are mainstream porn producers are using it for advertising?

4tube.com; xxxbunker.com, XHamster.com and xvideos.com are examples of how I find content. It gives you access to current stars that have put out content.

Additionally it gives me access to amateur content for which I would have not clue that it existed or where to find it. And I've tried to find it. (This is a major benefit to tube sites).

Trying to stay current with what is out there is no easy task. I do have sites I like and go back to - evilangel.com and throated.com. because it gives me access to my deepthroat niche that most other providers, honestly, fall flat on their face with.

Deepthroat Love is an example of a site I use to subscribe to, but they have watered down their content so that it's just a bullshit name.

Also, it really pisses me off that a site will say that someone is doing "deepthroat" when really it's just a big lie to get you to purchase a scene (Mike Adriano is famous for doing this. Only 1% of the girls he uses can actually deepthroat his johnson) . I want to know what I'm purchasing not just support some producer who has no idea what deepthroat is and lie about their content.

Seeing is believing and Tube sites allow me to see it. As you well know, the quality of the vids on these site are hardly worth viewing but at least it gives you an idea about a scene. Of course it's hard to find the name of a specific scene, but it the best clue one can find on the web.

Yes, I know, iafd.com can assist in locating a producer of a scene, as can eurobabeindex.com and thenude.eu but none of these actually give you a niche search.

Ok, I would not recommend using just any tube site but over the years I've not been unhappy with the ones I've listed above.

I realize that a large portion of the porn viewing population could be totally cheap and are willing to rip off producers. I want to keep porn going but I don't care to spend my money on stuff that really is a big waste on my libido.

Anyway, this my defense of tube sites.

Disclaimer: Use these sites at your own risk - I don't work for them. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

01-14-13  08:46pm - 561 days #2
TheSquirrel (53)
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You wont be getting any flak from me. I agree with what you are saying on this one, although the heavy artillery is probably being loaded at this very moment. Like you I look on tube sites and free download sites. It helps me decide which sites or networks I am going to subscribe to. It also makes me feel good to view or download material from those who practice pre checked cross selling, regional discrimination, or have a bad reputation for ripping people off.

01-14-13  10:02pm - 561 days #3
hodayathink (18)
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Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


You wont be getting any flak from me. I agree with what you are saying on this one, although the heavy artillery is probably being loaded at this very moment. Like you I look on tube sites and free download sites. It helps me decide which sites or networks I am going to subscribe to. It also makes me feel good to view or download material from those who practice pre checked cross selling, regional discrimination, or have a bad reputation for ripping people off.


The first part of what you said, I'm generally okay with. The second part is an attitude that really, really gets on my nerves.

Just because a company doesn't offer their content in a way that you want them to doesn't mean you have the right to steal/pirate/consume it anyway. If you don't like what they do, then don't consume their content. It's that easy. Anything else is being, at absolute best, completely and totally selfish (that's the nice version of how I really feel about it).

01-14-13  10:57pm - 561 days #4
graymane (31)
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I'm definitely leaning to your corner on this one, JB.
They (tube sights)serve a very useful purpose for a lot of people, and for those who have success using them the payoff can be abundantly satisfying.
I say that with a caveat, because if you aren't tuned into their modus operandi, I've found usually by the time you're getting started, you might then discover they've subtley introduced, and brought along and some of their friends, the result of which you might find your browser AWOL and tool bar on overload with add-ons. My point: there's no free lunch here either.

Overall, though, if one can navigate and/or outwit tubers with the skill as have our discerning thread-master here has so impressively done, ... then the man Gets no "flax" from me.

Having said that, should we take JB's gracious advice and examine the links he has so thoughtfully provided, then a positive response would give me pleasure squelching any downside I might've conveyed. Edited on Jan 14, 2013, 11:12pm

01-14-13  11:12pm - 560 days #5
BenThruston (11)
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Love tube sites

-They replaced old tgp/mgp sites who link to one another making visiting them a waste.

-Some of my fav material, esp when comes to shemale stuff, tends to be amateur/pro-am video. Good for that.

-Sometimes used as good way for lesser known sites' material to get noticed.

That said, I wish the people who upload material from a site wouldn't blackout or blur where the material came from (all more reason I guess for owners to advertise through them) so when I cross a good clip I'd know where to get the better quality version or see if site has other interesting material.

01-15-13  07:19am - 560 days #6
TheSquirrel (53)
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Originally Posted by hodayathink:


The first part of what you said, I'm generally okay with. The second part is an attitude that really, really gets on my nerves.

Just because a company doesn't offer their content in a way that you want them to doesn't mean you have the right to steal/pirate/consume it anyway. If you don't like what they do, then don't consume their content. It's that easy. Anything else is being, at absolute best, completely and totally selfish (that's the nice version of how I really feel about it).


A large part of this forum will always disagree with me on this one. I have no problem at all with this. "Rights" is an abstract concept. They are not real, they are created by human beings, unless you believe in some sort of god. You can then say, "god says this is right, or this is wrong, you do not have the right to do that." Fair enough if you believe in that.

Just because a company doesn't offer their content in a way that I want, doesn't mean I have the right to steal/pirate/consume it, but it doesn't mean I don't have the right either. I could say if I can do it, I have the right. "Rights" is an abstract idea. I have the right to do anything I am able to do. I am my own god, and my own arbitor of what is right or wrong.

This is what most people do anyway. They do what they want then try to justify it. I don't. I don't think it's right or wrong, I do it because I am able, and also because it gives me a nice warm feeling to rip off some organisations. It makes me feel good. If this makes me totally selfish, I am totally selfish, pretty much like 99.9 per cent of human beings.

Whether you download or view for free I will say one thing: It is in all our interests to support those who do not try to rip us off or have dodgy practices. It is in all our interests to support those who do present their work in a way the majority here want, but not give money and support to those who don't. I suppose I could say it is selfish to support and give money to those who have those dodgy practices, but it's for everyone to decide on what is right for them.

I don't much care whether it's the nice or nasty version. You obviously have a strong opinion on this (as do many), and I would not consider it to be flaming, as this is the way you feel. It is good that you express that opinion. We merely disagree, but it makes the forum more interesting. We can't have everyone here loving one another: Well I suppose we can, but it would be a lot more boring. Edited on Jan 15, 2013, 07:26am

01-15-13  08:38am - 560 days #7
Cybertoad (102)
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I find many of these sites especially the free one have very rouge scripts running.
I tend not to trust a site that using my browser and player and has to run scripts on my PC. The site and movie maybe fine
but some sites never check the advertisers scripts.

I have joined some in the past , but kind of avoid them now.

01-15-13  11:18am - 560 days #8
hodayathink (18)
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Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


A large part of this forum will always disagree with me on this one. I have no problem at all with this. "Rights" is an abstract concept. They are not real, they are created by human beings, unless you believe in some sort of god. You can then say, "god says this is right, or this is wrong, you do not have the right to do that." Fair enough if you believe in that.

Just because a company doesn't offer their content in a way that I want, doesn't mean I have the right to steal/pirate/consume it, but it doesn't mean I don't have the right either. I could say if I can do it, I have the right. "Rights" is an abstract idea. I have the right to do anything I am able to do. I am my own god, and my own arbitor of what is right or wrong.

This is what most people do anyway. They do what they want then try to justify it. I don't. I don't think it's right or wrong, I do it because I am able, and also because it gives me a nice warm feeling to rip off some organisations. It makes me feel good. If this makes me totally selfish, I am totally selfish, pretty much like 99.9 per cent of human beings.

Whether you download or view for free I will say one thing: It is in all our interests to support those who do not try to rip us off or have dodgy practices. It is in all our interests to support those who do present their work in a way the majority here want, but not give money and support to those who don't. I suppose I could say it is selfish to support and give money to those who have those dodgy practices, but it's for everyone to decide on what is right for them.

I don't much care whether it's the nice or nasty version. You obviously have a strong opinion on this (as do many), and I would not consider it to be flaming, as this is the way you feel. It is good that you express that opinion. We merely disagree, but it makes the forum more interesting. We can't have everyone here loving one another: Well I suppose we can, but it would be a lot more boring.


Well, ignoring the argument about what "rights" are, which is an interesting one, there's the simple fact that what you're doing is illegal. It's copyright infringement (you have to be careful not to call it theft, or people will jump on you). You're more than likely never going to get caught or charged with anything, but it is still illegal.

For my completely honest opinion, I know that people don't like to equate digital media to physical goods when it comes to things like this, but I do. If I were to buy all the ingredients and bake a cake, but I decide to sell that cake only to people willing to buy the milk from me, too, and to charge $20 per piece, that doesn't mean that it's okay for you to come in and steal some of my cake because you don't like how I sell it. The companies pay to produce/acquire the content, so they get to control how the content is sold. You don't like it, either find someone you do like or create your own content. Anything else, in my opinion, shows a sense of entitlement.

01-15-13  12:36pm - 560 days #9
Claypaws (44)
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Originally Posted by hodayathink:


Well, ignoring the argument about what "rights" are, which is an interesting one, there's the simple fact that what you're doing is illegal. It's copyright infringement....

The companies pay to produce/acquire the content, so they get to control how the content is sold. You don't like it, either find someone you do like or create your own content. Anything else, in my opinion, shows a sense of entitlement.


I'm with you on this one.

Morality, feasibility and legality are separate concepts.

If one does not like the law, one should campain to change it, not break it because one can or because one believes that one is morally justified.

01-15-13  01:14pm - 560 days #10
messmer (137)
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Just a question from a non tube using member. Is the quality of the offered material really good enough to even bother stealing it? I only ran across one tube site (xhamster?) by accident. I was re-directed there while looking at one of those advertising TGP sites and was appalled at the quality of what they offered and was wondering why people would want crap simply because it is free?

Are there actually tube sites that offer the stolen material in the same quality as that of the original site where it was illegally obtained? I guess you can tell by the tone of my post that I am not a great lover of porn users ripping off pay sites so this is not an attempt to get my hands on free material but simple curiosity on my part. What the heck is their attraction if their quality is generally as bad as what I saw on xHamster that one time???.

Advertisements are a different matter, I am talking TGPs where I have come across many a site that I had never heard of before. The ATK sites as well as AO30 were two of the sites that got quite a bit of my money over the years .. thanks to the TGPs. Of course, now that I am a member here I no longer use them, especially since many do nothing now but redirect you to another site.

01-15-13  01:31pm - 560 days #11
TheSquirrel (53)
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Hodayathink/Claypaws - Your point of view is one that I believe the majority have. Obviously I disagree about breaking the law. I always say if you don't like the law, break it, just don't get caught. From my point of view the law is made up by enemies of normal people. They own the media, therefore there is no free speech, therefore there is no democracy.

By all means, campaign to change the law, but if you don't like it, break it without any conscience. The moral law is different. I think most people have a kind of built in inherent feeling about what they think is right or wrong. Therefore they feel uneasy about theft, murder, rape, violence etc but everyone is different. Obviously in the interest of the many we need laws to stop people doing things that the majority do not like.

That is the reason we are supposed to have law, and have a police force and rulers. Unfortunately I consider our rulers to be the enemy, the greatest crooks. They are an enemy which is corrupt, crooked, and makes sure the world is run by the minority for the benefit of the minority. They pretend they are there to protect us fom all those bad things we don't like to see. I don't believe a word of it. That is only a facade, a pretence in order to control us.

I am in the minority feeling about things the way I do. The majority will agree with you both. I have done things in my life which have been, and are, illegal - viewing porn has been one of them. Sometimes it feels good to break the law. I have no qualms or conscience about it.

01-15-13  01:41pm - 560 days #12
TheSquirrel (53)
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Quality on tube sites is crap messmer. They are useful for tasting material so you can see what is available.

I rarely download from free download sites nowadays, but I think they are a much better way of finding out who has what. You don't need to download as most threads have screen caps or pics of the videos. I find that is the quickest way to sift through all the material and decide which site is best for me.

...and yes you do have to realise there are nasty spyware bugs and viruses around those places.

01-15-13  03:34pm - 560 days #13
messmer (137)
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Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


Quality on tube sites is crap messmer. They are useful for tasting material so you can see what is available.

I rarely download from free download sites nowadays, but I think they are a much better way of finding out who has what. You don't need to download as most threads have screen caps or pics of the videos. I find that is the quickest way to sift through all the material and decide which site is best for me.

...and yes you do have to realise there are nasty spyware bugs and viruses around those places.


Thanks, squirrel! That last sentence is enough to ensure that I don't EVER go to a tube site again! I haven't come across malware or a virus in years and would like to keep it that way.

01-15-13  04:02pm - 560 days #14
jberryl69 (12)
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Oh yeah, can of worms...

I'm not familiar with downloading content from tube sites and personally would be very nervous about doing it. No telling what some clown will attach to a file. Besides, I thought that if you wanted to download you had to join their site and pay a fee.

Scripts, malware and viruses I don't worry about since I'm not downloading. Also I run a browser add on called Adblock Plus and a script manager called No Script. These require some work to manage but they work wonders.

And I will repeat, you have to choose your sites carefully because some are just there to mess you up. Usually you're going to find pretty much the same material on all of the sites, at least the ones I listed above. Hamster, because it is a User Upload site, has more than most, both ripped stuff and amateur stuff.

But I will repeat, I use them like an encyclopedia albeit a porn encyclopedia - just a resource tool.

Disclaimer: Use at your own risk. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!
Edited on Jan 15, 2013, 04:13pm

01-15-13  06:52pm - 560 days #15
pat362 (367)
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I wish I could argue with you TheSquirrel but it's clear that you don't believe that what you are doing is wrong or you don't give a shit. Either way I won't bother debating this with you because we will never agree. I will only say that you are part of the people that have no issue with stealing (my word) porn and when there is simply little new porn being made then you can feel good that you helped destroy what most Religious groups consider to be an amoral industry. Long live the Brown Coats.

01-18-13  04:32am - 557 days #16
skunk (0)
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The tube sites will not be so good for downloading as more of them are being hit by Scams now. http://www.sexxximps.com

01-18-13  11:02am - 557 days #17
bibo (13)
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First, I'd like to mention that I don't visit tube sites, I do not share or download illegal copies of porn and I'm paying for all sites I join (and that's not just a few).

BUT!
Whenever that topic is being discussed, it's inevitable, that the anti-copy fraction is playing the copy kills card at some point, even to the extend of claiming, that downloading pirate copies is responsible for the death of the entire industry.

This is wrong! Simply and utterly wrong. Of course, the myth is catered by the industry itself, who likes to be portrayed in the role of the suffering victim. Doesn't make it better.

The vast majority of people who are sharing pirated material wouldn't buy that material anyways. The simple equation each copy = 1 lost sale doesn't work. It's not a 1:1 loss, not even close.
In fact, tube sites and torrent sites have a positive impact on the sales figures of sites, because they're an advertising/marketing instrument. It's the same with music. People may be downloading one song from a filesharing site, listen to it, then decide to buy the entire album... legally and officially. Same effect here, people are watching a blurry low res scene on a tube site and then decide to join the site to get the full content in higher quality and without the risk of gettin a virus or trojan. If it wasn't the case, why do you think are so many tube sites run by big porn companies?

01-18-13  12:36pm - 557 days #18
hodayathink (18)
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Originally Posted by bibo:


First, I'd like to mention that I don't visit tube sites, I do not share or download illegal copies of porn and I'm paying for all sites I join (and that's not just a few).

BUT!
Whenever that topic is being discussed, it's inevitable, that the anti-copy fraction is playing the copy kills card at some point, even to the extend of claiming, that downloading pirate copies is responsible for the death of the entire industry.

This is wrong! Simply and utterly wrong. Of course, the myth is catered by the industry itself, who likes to be portrayed in the role of the suffering victim. Doesn't make it better.

The vast majority of people who are sharing pirated material wouldn't buy that material anyways. The simple equation each copy = 1 lost sale doesn't work. It's not a 1:1 loss, not even close.
In fact, tube sites and torrent sites have a positive impact on the sales figures of sites, because they're an advertising/marketing instrument. It's the same with music. People may be downloading one song from a filesharing site, listen to it, then decide to buy the entire album... legally and officially. Same effect here, people are watching a blurry low res scene on a tube site and then decide to join the site to get the full content in higher quality and without the risk of gettin a virus or trojan. If it wasn't the case, why do you think are so many tube sites run by big porn companies?


Conscientious pirates like to think that's the case. The truth is that it isn't. While you're right in saying that it isn't a 1:1 direct correlation, it's not a net positive impact either. While not everyone who pirates would have bought, to pretend like there's no one that pirates that would have bought otherwise is disingenuous at best and completely dishonest at worst.

And as to your last statement. It's one porn company that owns many of the tube sites. They're called Manwin. And the reason they do is besides the fact that they're profitable on their own (Manwin makes more money from their tube sites than they do from all their subscription sites put together. Think about that for a second. They make more money off the free porn than they do the paid stuff.), is because it destabilizes the industry, making other companies worth less, making them easier to buy out (which is another of Manwin's stated goals, to buy as many companies as they can).

01-18-13  01:00pm - 557 days #19
messmer (137)
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Originally Posted by hodayathink:


And as to your last statement. It's one porn company that owns many of the tube sites. They're called Manwin. And the reason they do is besides the fact that they're profitable on their own (Manwin makes more money from their tube sites than they do from all their subscription sites put together. Think about that for a second. They make more money off the free porn than they do the paid stuff.), is because it destabilizes the industry, making other companies worth less, making them easier to buy out (which is another of Manwin's stated goals, to buy as many companies as they can).


Just curious, hodayathink, how do tube sites make money? As I stated in another place my experience with them is limited to a one time visit. Do they show ads? Do they offer upgrades that would cost you, the way Porn.com did before we de-listed them here?

I honestly want to know because when I think of Manwin I think of Brazzers and Reality Kings etc. sites that certainly don't appear to be losing propositions. So, if they get their money through ads is it really that profitable for any site to carry them? Thanks.

01-18-13  01:15pm - 557 days #20
bibo (13)
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Originally Posted by hodayathink:


Conscientious pirates like to think that's the case. The truth is that it isn't.


And conscientious anti-pirates like to think that it isn't the case. Guess that's a draw then?

Fact of the matter is, you don't know the figures, I don't know the figures and in fact: nobody knows the REAL figures, not even the companies. We just hear companies complaining and mourning their losses. It's the same game wherever you look, music, gaming, they have all been there, pretending to be the victims and - magically - they all managed to survive by finding alternative ways of distribution.

Originally Posted by hodayathink:


While not everyone who pirates would have bought, to pretend like there's no one that pirates that would have bought otherwise is disingenuous at best and completely dishonest at worst.


The crucial word here is "otherwise". What is otherwise? Otherwise as in "if copying data wasn't possible"? Or otherwise as in "if pirates would be punished harder"? Piracy is a fact, people do it and those people don't pay, there is no otheriwse. That's reality. Everything else is theory. Find a way to stop them and we might see prospering porn companies, but as long as you can't, we're discussing phantoms.

01-19-13  06:53pm - 556 days #21
TheSquirrel (53)
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Originally Posted by bibo:


First, I'd like to mention that I don't visit tube sites, I do not share or download illegal copies of porn and I'm paying for all sites I join (and that's not just a few).

BUT!
Whenever that topic is being discussed, it's inevitable, that the anti-copy fraction is playing the copy kills card at some point, even to the extend of claiming, that downloading pirate copies is responsible for the death of the entire industry.

This is wrong! Simply and utterly wrong. Of course, the myth is catered by the industry itself, who likes to be portrayed in the role of the suffering victim. Doesn't make it better.

The vast majority of people who are sharing pirated material wouldn't buy that material anyways. The simple equation each copy = 1 lost sale doesn't work. It's not a 1:1 loss, not even close.
In fact, tube sites and torrent sites have a positive impact on the sales figures of sites, because they're an advertising/marketing instrument. It's the same with music. People may be downloading one song from a filesharing site, listen to it, then decide to buy the entire album... legally and officially. Same effect here, people are watching a blurry low res scene on a tube site and then decide to join the site to get the full content in higher quality and without the risk of gettin a virus or trojan. If it wasn't the case, why do you think are so many tube sites run by big porn companies?


Naturally I consider this to be one of the most sensible and reasoned posts on this thread. Everyone has an opinion, but I tend to stay away from the armageddon response. There is a comedian called Harry Enfield who used to have a character who whenever anyone argued with him had a kind of armageddon response - he would come up with the most extreme frightening consequences of any opposing views and then say something like "is that what you want because that's what you'll get."

Personally I think being positive, supporting decent sites or networks, and staying away from rogues, helps the industry. Naturally I would argue it that way. There is truth in any opinion. I think piracy does weaken the industry as a whole, but then so do rogue networks who rip people off.

I have chosen to download for free from sites I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, and subscribe to what I consider to be the honourable ones. There are a lot of grey areas in here. I think Bibo did a good job pointing this out. Life isn't black and white, nor is piracy or the consequences.

I look at tube sites to see who has the best material, and then subscribe to what I consider to be the best ones. Maybe some networks should have better previews. Yes some people would just look at the free preview stuff, but they are unlikely to be the sort who subscribe. Online porn is very cheap and those of us who want to pay actually prefer to pay for it, for a number of reasons.

Download material of rogue sites for free and see them go broke. I wish they would. Edited on Jan 19, 2013, 06:59pm

01-19-13  07:45pm - 556 days #22
Micha (1)
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With the exception of an occasional short, I have never watched an online video, 15 to 20 seconds of buffering for 5 to 10 seconds of video. Thank you, no. Nothing will make me reach for the kill button faster than the word tube on my screen. I love video and have downloaded thousands, but will not watch one that doesn't reside on my hard drive. The tube site quality just sucks. unless life also gives you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck.

01-20-13  07:44am - 555 days #23
TheSquirrel (53)
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Originally Posted by Micha:


With the exception of an occasional short, I have never watched an online video, 15 to 20 seconds of buffering for 5 to 10 seconds of video. Thank you, no. Nothing will make me reach for the kill button faster than the word tube on my screen. I love video and have downloaded thousands, but will not watch one that doesn't reside on my hard drive. The tube site quality just sucks.


It does suck, which is why I agree with jberry's suggestion that the best use for tube sites is as a useful reference tool.

01-20-13  10:15am - 555 days #24
pat362 (367)
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Originally Posted by bibo:


First, I'd like to mention that I don't visit tube sites, I do not share or download illegal copies of porn and I'm paying for all sites I join (and that's not just a few).

BUT!
Whenever that topic is being discussed, it's inevitable, that the anti-copy fraction is playing the copy kills card at some point, even to the extend of claiming, that downloading pirate copies is responsible for the death of the entire industry.



Ah if only your arguments were true then no one woul be talking about Tube sites and torrent sites in a bad way but you are so far off the deep end that it's not funny.

Let's talk about the mainstream industry first. Although it's true that some people who download a couple of songs illegally will then go out and buy the album but I dare say that they are the minority. I think the majority of these pleople will instead look for the entire album and illegally download it on the pretext that it's not a very good album or that they could have recorded all the songs from the radio so it's okay to do it this way. That's not to say that music companies didn't screw plenty of artist over the years because I think they all did but stealing the songs is not only screwing the studio but the artist as well. The only difference now is that the artist got screwed by his record company and his fan.

The same can be said for tv shows and movies. If the show or movie is so bad that you were never going to see it in theaters, rent it on dvd or watch on tv then why is it good enough to download and save to your computer?

Now we come to porn. By your argument all porn studios are lying when they say that Tube and Torrent sites are killing the industry. I would love to believe you but the proof is doesn't point in that direction. Just look at the number of studios currently producing porn vs what it was just 4 years ago and you can clearly see that the number of active studios has significantly dropped and you can also see that the ones still producing porn today are not doing as many releases as they did just a few years ago. Recession could be blamed for a couple of those dead studios but cxertainly not the bulk of them.

No the sad reality is that if someone can get something for free (in his mind) then he will do so and not even care that he is stealing the material. Of course he has many reasons for justifying his action but the most common ones seems to be that the porn isn't very good so it's okay to steal it as he wouldn't have bought it anyway. Not a bad reason per say but why steal something that you don't particularly like?

It's true that some studios are making money from Tube and Torrent Sites but those are the ones who own them and they are not well liked in the industry(see anything to do with manwin for rexample). Most of the others make some money but it's like getting a quarter for something that cost you a dollar to make. You aren't actually making money but you aren't losing it all. Long live the Brown Coats.

01-20-13  10:37am - 555 days #25
joekramer08 (12)
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I do use tube sites to check out previews of sites that I'm thinking about joining. A lot of sites don't offer previews of their scenes, so tube sites are a good way to see what their scenes are like.

01-20-13  03:33pm - 555 days #26
jberryl69 (12)
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Posts: 969
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Location: neverland


Pat - just curious if you think that some of the reduction in the number of studios and releases are because they (as a industry) over saturated the market with the same old crap? In following a jonni darkko thread, he asks a lot about what kind of movie to do next, like he doesn't really know what will sell.

I read where Messmer has money to spend on porn but doesn't know where to spend it. That points to the fact that producers can't figure out how to make "new" types of movies or scenes. It's like a formula and it's boring, even if it is gonzo.

It's just like when you watch a European scene, you can expect most of it to be anal with the multiple male talent into their usual hiss and awe mode - same thing with the females - god that gets old fast cause it's just as fake as breasts can be.

Of course this doesn't have anything to do with tube sites or intellectual property (if you can call it that) ripoffs, but just the general malaise of the industry.

I found it interesting that Jay Sin brought us Milk products, like it or not, to change up the scene, but he's kind of dropped out of site for awhile (though I saw where he might be back). I mean, there is only so much one can do to a human body (that's legal) that falls into the realm of erotic or sexual.

About the only real thing of interest is new models doing the same old things, which I have to admit, can be entertaining.

Just a side note, when jonni asked for new ideas I suggested some money shots up the nose. I mean, what more sexy than cum running out of a nostril? If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!
Edited on Jan 20, 2013, 03:58pm

01-20-13  06:44pm - 555 days #27
pat362 (367)
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Location: canada
^No I don't believe that oversaturation of the market is the reason why so many studios are now dead and the reason is that all of them were making plenty of money in the beginning of 2000 and the only thing that really changed is that sometime in the mid 2000 you started to see more and more tube and torrent sites on the net and these were usually offering content from both just released dvd's or the most recent updates from porn sites.

I also have money to spend and although I find some small gems here and there. I can't say that the bulk of the porn that I currently download is as good as I would like it to be. I at least still enjoy some gonzo porn so I have more chances than messmer. Once tube and torrent sites started to steal content than only the biggest studios were able to survive and therefore these studios stopped trying to shot variety because they know that their margin of profit is so small that any loss of money could be catastrophic.

I'd like to point out that this isn't a North American only problem because most European studios are also dead now and we certainly can't blame lack of variety for their demise. yes many of the Eastern European sites tend to showcase anal but you once had French, Italian, German and English studios that also released plenty of movies and they offered a lot more variety. Where are they if not dead because their movies were pirated two minutes after it was released and available on half a dozen different torrent sites.

P.S: I never saw the scenes themselves but I do know that a few movies were made where the theme was girls snorting cum up their nose. What the F..k is that if not crazy? Long live the Brown Coats.

01-20-13  07:39pm - 555 days #28
jberryl69 (12)
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Posts: 969
Registered: Nov 27, '10
Location: neverland
^ just a niche that hasn't been explored enough if you ask me. I have to admit, that when a girl is giving a blow job and her mucus starts to flow, I find it over the top sexy to see it come out of her nose. Too often they want to clean it up but I'm wondering why. It's the same mucus they let flow through their saliva.

Also there is a famous old scene where this girl is deepthroating a guy, he cums and it flows out of not only her mouth but her nose too.

Call ME crazy but that gives me a woody just thinking about it. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

01-20-13  07:58pm - 555 days #29
hodayathink (18)
Active User

Posts: 312
Registered: Mar 27, '09
Location: Illinois
Originally Posted by jberryl69:




Pat - just curious if you think that some of the reduction in the number of studios and releases are because they (as a industry) over saturated the market with the same old crap? In following a jonni darkko thread, he asks a lot about what kind of movie to do next, like he doesn't really know what will sell.

I read where Messmer has money to spend on porn but doesn't know where to spend it. That points to the fact that producers can't figure out how to make "new" types of movies or scenes. It's like a formula and it's boring, even if it is gonzo.

It's just like when you watch a European scene, you can expect most of it to be anal with the multiple male talent into their usual hiss and awe mode - same thing with the females - god that gets old fast cause it's just as fake as breasts can be.

Of course this doesn't have anything to do with tube sites or intellectual property (if you can call it that) ripoffs, but just the general malaise of the industry.

I found it interesting that Jay Sin brought us Milk products, like it or not, to change up the scene, but he's kind of dropped out of site for awhile (though I saw where he might be back). I mean, there is only so much one can do to a human body (that's legal) that falls into the realm of erotic or sexual.

About the only real thing of interest is new models doing the same old things, which I have to admit, can be entertaining.

Just a side note, when jonni asked for new ideas I suggested some money shots up the nose. I mean, what more sexy than cum running out of a nostril?


People say this a lot (that porn isn't selling as much because it lost it's individuality and became too homogenized), but I think people have the order of events backwards. To me, the truth of what has happened/is happening is that the piracy + the economy took a lot of the money out of porn first, and then because of that the producers companies had to cut corners and stop taking risks in their content. What you're seeing now is, for the most part, the type of content that still sells well and/or the type of content that is cheapest to produce. The types of content you used to see but don't anymore, that's because that type of stuff just wasn't generating the same profit as what's currently "mainstream". Niche content starts disappearing because it's no cheaper than mainstream content, and by definition of it being niche, it appeals to a smaller audience, meaning that there's less potential customers to sell it to.

01-20-13  08:44pm - 555 days #30
luv lickn clit (19)
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Posts: 59
Registered: Dec 18, '12
Location: Louisiana, USA
I first came across tube sites when I googled a model's name in an effort to find other websites that featured her. So I clicked on a couple of them, and yeah, you could watch a crap quality video, and get links to websites, but the bottom line for me was that the quality was crap. The model index sites and free tours are what I use now when I'm looking for more material on a specific model. In addition, the few times that I've been to tube sites, my anti-virus software invariably got a serious workout. I've never run into anything that it couldn't handle, but I dont' like to take any chances, so I avoid any site that my antivirus flags. I've never used a torrent site, since I am more than willing to pay for content that I like (are people using these to distribute pirated HD porn vids?). As for studios going out of business, I think its a stretch to say that tube sites are the reason--the quality is just too crappy. I think the global recession is as much to blame as anything. On the other hand, file sharing of HD quality vids would obviously be a problem. I consider that stealing, so I don't do it. luv lickn clit
:tongue

01-20-13  09:01pm - 555 days #31
jberryl69 (12)
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Posts: 969
Registered: Nov 27, '10
Location: neverland
Originally Posted by hodayathink:


People say this a lot (that porn isn't selling as much because it lost it's individuality and became too homogenized), but ...


Your response seems so counter intuitive to what happens in other industries. If Steve Jobs took that approach there would be no Apple. There were knockoffs but his ability to keep innovation up kept Apple in the forefront and they stayed on top of the cutting edge of technology. If porn producers want to stay on top then they need to do the same. It will be stale seaman if they don't, tube sites not withstanding. Tube sites will not kill porn, dull porn producers will.

At least in my humble opinion. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!
Edited on Jan 20, 2013, 09:04pm

01-20-13  09:22pm - 555 days #32
hodayathink (18)
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Posts: 312
Registered: Mar 27, '09
Location: Illinois
Originally Posted by jberryl69:


Your response seems so counter intuitive to what happens in other industries. If Steve Jobs took that approach there would be no Apple. There were knockoffs but his ability to keep innovation up kept Apple in the forefront and they stayed on top of the cutting edge of technology. If porn producers want to stay on top then they need to do the same. It will be stale seaman if they don't, tube sites not withstanding. Tube sites will not kill porn, dull porn producers will.

At least in my humble opinion.


I disagree. If you really pay attention, it's not that no one is taking risks in porn. Risks are still being taken all the time. It's just that it's not up to the larger companies to do it anymore. Smaller companies take the risks, and if those risks prove successful, then the bigger companies copy the ideas and make them mainstream. I look at a company like Evil Angel and see a perfect example of that. I could even argue that that is actually what Apple does that keeps them successful. That what they do isn't necessarily innovate, but polish the heck out of other people's innovations and put a user-friendly UI on top of it.

Edit: Now that I've thought about this a little more, I'm going to caveat it with something. One of the other things I've noticed is that companies seem nearly incapable of playing the long game. If given the choice of definite short term profits or probable long term success, it seems like the large majority of them will choose the short-term option. Some of this is shown in practices that are thoroughly despised here (i.e. pre-checked cross selling, not allowing downloads immediately after joining), but it manifests even in their business deals with each other. Edited on Jan 20, 2013, 10:05pm

01-27-13  10:32pm - 548 days #33
hodayathink (18)
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Posts: 312
Registered: Mar 27, '09
Location: Illinois
Originally Posted by bibo:


And conscientious anti-pirates like to think that it isn't the case. Guess that's a draw then?

Fact of the matter is, you don't know the figures, I don't know the figures and in fact: nobody knows the REAL figures, not even the companies. We just hear companies complaining and mourning their losses. It's the same game wherever you look, music, gaming, they have all been there, pretending to be the victims and - magically - they all managed to survive by finding alternative ways of distribution.



The crucial word here is "otherwise". What is otherwise? Otherwise as in "if copying data wasn't possible"? Or otherwise as in "if pirates would be punished harder"? Piracy is a fact, people do it and those people don't pay, there is no otheriwse. That's reality. Everything else is theory. Find a way to stop them and we might see prospering porn companies, but as long as you can't, we're discussing phantoms.


I know it took me a long time to answer this, but it's because I kinda forgot about it until today. I read some stuff about Mega (a new site from the creator of MegaUpload), and it reminded me of this thread.

The answer isn't to wipe out piracy, because there will always be ways to transmit large files over the internet. That's one of the biggest good things about the internet. And many times, those large files will be content covered by a copyright. The "otherwise" is to make it more difficult to pirate. Tube sites literally make it easy to the point of being trivial to pirate content. You literally just type what you're looking for and bam, it's right there, and you start playing it immediately.

I've been pirating content for well over a decade now. I go back to the days of LimeWire and KaZaa and WinMX and Direct Connect, when you had to download specific clients and then configure them and then search, and then you had to wait for your download to finish, and then you had to hope that the download was actually what it was supposed to be, because if it wasn't, you were going to have to download a whole 'nother copy and then check and see if that copy was correct. Not to mention people embedding any number of types of malware into the files. Torrenting made it easier, but you still generally had to wait for a download, there was still the chance that it wasn't what it said it was and the chance of downloading malware in addition to the file. Tube sites took all of those extra steps away and made it just as easy as going to the paysite itself, especially if you are the type of person that doesn't need to have the best quality video.

And in case you missed this in the rest of the paragraph, yes, I was, and still am, a pirate. Yes, I do occasionally still use tube sites. I generally do consider myself one of those "conscientious pirates". I just don't pretend that what I'm doing is okay, or justifiable. It's wrong, and I know it's wrong, but I choose to do it anyway.

01-28-13  06:20pm - 547 days #34
pat362 (367)
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^The question is how much of the porn you watch on Tube Sites or download from Torrent sites do you try and find so that you can pay for it? Or do you not bother. Long live the Brown Coats.

01-28-13  07:27pm - 547 days #35
hodayathink (18)
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Posts: 312
Registered: Mar 27, '09
Location: Illinois
Originally Posted by pat362:


^The question is how much of the porn you watch on Tube Sites or download from Torrent sites do you try and find so that you can pay for it? Or do you not bother.


Most of the stuff that I find that isn't obviously amateur content, I do try to figure out where it came from so that I can attempt to purchase it. And not even necessarily out of guilt. It's because if I already know that they produced a couple scenes that I liked, there's a good chance that if I figure out the original source, there will be even more content there that I like as well, that isn't up on whatever site I'm getting it from, and is probably available in a higher quality as well (especially since I almost never use torrents anymore). Also, with a tube site, there's always a chance that whatever clip is it that I like will be taken down by the content owner. If I can find the original source and download/purchase from there, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

Truthfully, nowadays a lot of what I watch there is either obviously amateur content, or content from 80s and 90s movies that may not be up on subscription sites (and even then I try to find out what movie it's from and see if I can find it on VOD sites). I don't go looking for specific content, I just browse around the site and click on whatever looks interesting. But while that makes it better, it doesn't necessarily make it justified. What grinds my gears, for lack of a better term, is people that believe that they are entitled to content just because it exists, and if they can't purchase it in exactly the way they want it, that makes it okay for them to take it.

01-29-13  06:20pm - 546 days #36
pat362 (367)
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^I don't think you classify as the proto-typical tube site user but then again. I didn't think you would. I think the more common Tube Site user is a younger guy who is more than happy to look at free (for him) porn. He'll beg anyone who will listen for information on the movie or the performers but not so that he can buy the content but so that he can find more free stuff like that video. Long live the Brown Coats.

01-30-13  08:48pm - 545 days #37
PinkPanther (46)
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Location: Oakland, CA
For those who value having a vibrant, diverse porn world, what tube sites have done is this:

They've enabled Manwin and whatever their former names were to use their MANY tube sites to destroy the value of pay-sites so that they could go in and buy them at bargain prices and corner the porn market for themselves.

They have certainly driven many porn producers out of the biz or into a moribund state.

So they're a way for people to look at poor-quality clips to see if they would like to pay for high-quality material - that hardly seems like a reasonable trade-off for the massive destruction that they have caused.

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