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11-14-12  04:44pm - 741 days Original Post - #1
Claypaws (44)
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Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
No more reviews from me

You may notice that I have not posted a review since early August. You may also notice that my status has changed to "Webmaster". I have not actually become a webmaster - I do not run a site - so I would like to explain what has happened.

In the middle of August, I finally decided I would like to have a go at shooting softcore content for publication. That entailed potentially approaching one or more websites. I must make it clear that I made no approaches anywhere before completion of my last review and I felt it appropriate to stop writing reviews of any sites thereafter.

I am pleased to say that I have now had some work accepted for publication but I am not not directly employed by any site. I will not say where the work is to be published since I do not want to appear to be promoting the site or my own work. I expect it to go online in a week or so and I decided to alert Khan to this before it occurs.

Khan is allowing me to continue participating in forums but I shall not take part in any other aspects of PU or TBP and my forum participation will be self-limited to topics in which I am disinterested.

At this stage, I do not know if I will be able to continue producing content although it is currently my intention to do so. I expected and have found that it is very difficult and time consuming to obtain models and I may find this to be more of a burden than I want to bear. I have also discovered that only a small part of a shoot consists of shooting. The bulk of the time is taken up with shifting furniture and completing legal documents.

I have enjoyed taking part here and have had the pleasure of interacting with thoughtful and friendly fellow PU members, whose enthusiastic views have been another factor in steering me towards content production and, at least for now, away from eligibility to continue to hold a user account.

11-14-12  06:11pm - 740 days #2
rearadmiral (334)
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Posts: 940
Registered: Jul 16, '07
Location: NB/Canada
Congratulations Claypaws! This is really interesting news. I'm jealous that you're following your dream.

I know rules are rules, but maybe since you've been an active member here Khan would consider allowing you to tell us where you're work has been posted. If not, I'll understand.

I know you're very busy, and I don't think this would break any rules, but I, for one, would love to read about your experiences, frustrations, good times and bad. I'd love to hear the details of your venture.

Good luck and don't leave us behind!

11-14-12  06:44pm - 740 days #3
pat362 (371)
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Congratulation on getting to do something you had always wanted to do. Long live the Brown Coats.

11-14-12  07:08pm - 740 days #4
Micha (1)
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Posts: 298
Registered: Jul 04, '10
Location: san jose ca
You're having trouble getting models? I suggest getting a van or a motor home and cruise around meeting female models. I've seen more than one site where this works very well. If you need male models, most any guy would probably pay you to let them be in your pictures and videos (though the softcore aspect may be a deal breaker) Good luck. unless life also gives you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck.

11-14-12  10:24pm - 740 days #5
lk2fireone (194)
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Posts: 1,545
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Although you only did a few reviews, they were among the finest ever posted at this site. And your comments and replies were thoughtful and based on a wealth of technical knowledge.

I also hope that Khan would post a comment allowing you to tell us where your work has been posted. As a fellow PU member, it just seems natural we would like to see your work.

Sincere congratulations on your new job.

11-15-12  07:11am - 740 days #6
Khan
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Posts: 1,660
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Location: USA
Originally Posted by rearadmiral:


I know rules are rules, but maybe since you've been an active member here Khan would consider allowing you to tell us where you're work has been posted. If not, I'll understand.


Sure, if he's so inclined, Claypaws may post what site his work will debut on. Senior Administrator
PornUsers.com

"To obtain a man's opinion of you, make him mad."-Oliver Wendell Holmes

11-15-12  08:00am - 740 days #7
Denner (233)
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Location: Denmark
Getting models seems to be no problems for others....well, just go for all those crummy agencies in eastern Europe - agencies where the crummy photographers/videographers go for:
If you'll fuck me, I'll make you a new star.

BTW: Just had a so called surveillance i Scandinavia concerning those photographers of nude material or alike in question.

The deal is: "Oh, yes, let me lick your pussy and give me a blowjob - you'll get far in this business".

"I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle"

11-15-12  09:11am - 740 days #8
Capn (28)
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This is a very interesting development.

I do hope you will be able to share you experiences with us & let us know where your work will be published.

Please continue to contribute when & where you feel you can.

Very good luck to you, my friend.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-15-12  03:56pm - 740 days #9
Cybertoad (104)
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Very cool, I do hope you keep in touch Gone For Awhile ! Be Safe !

11-15-12  04:10pm - 740 days #10
Claypaws (44)
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Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
RA - Thank you. It still feels like a bit of a dream to me. Mind you, sometimes it feels like a nightmare. I will try to post from time to time with outlines of my experiences.

Pat - Thank you. I alternate between wishing I had done this years ago and wondering why I have suddenly become mad enough to do it now. On the whole, I wish had started years ago.

Micha - what you say re van cruising the streets to meet models is ROFL funny. It is a great difference between CA and the UK. In CA it will get you models. In the UK, it will get you arrested or beaten up or your house set on fire or all of those. California has the most liberal and porn sympathetic laws and conventions in the USA. The UK is not at all tolerant to a public presence of anything relating to adult work. I have spoken to models who have been assaulted in the street when neighbours discovered they were adult modelling.

In the UK, it is not regarded as a mainstream activity whereas the majority of US models live in CA. There are of course red light districts here but it is a criminal offence to cruise in them.

I have no need of male models as I will only do softcore. I would consider GG at some stage but that multiplies the difficulties of model recruitment and management and I am not yet ready for that extra hassle.

lk2f - thank you for the congrats and also for the generous remark about my previous reviews and my comments on others' reviews. Ironically, I have joined five or six sites in the period between posting my last review and now. And I would expect to join more rather than fewer sites because they are a source of ideas on techniques to inspire and to avoid. Moreover, the cost of subscriptions is trivial compared to the costs of props, equipment and fees. However, I cannot of course review any sites or comment on reviews from now on. But I can continue to share technical knowledge where this helps discussions.

I am pleased so many fellow PU members are keen to know where my work will appear and wish to see it. Now that Khan has approved this, I shall do so.

Khan - thank you for permitting me to indicate the site. I took great trouble to give no clue whatsoever in my original post so as not to infringe any PU rules but I am pleased to be allowed to reveal it. In fairness to the site that has accepted my work, I will update this thread when the first content has actually been uploaded and I will then say what the site is and what the model's stage name is. I expect this to be in about a week but as I do not control the site's schedules and they do not publish previews or a release calendar, I feel I should wait until the first content is online.

BTW, I have told Khan what site it is.

Denner - That is funny! Eastern Europe is so very different from the UK. Probably, so is Scandinavia. Here in the UK, models are interested in two things - one is being paid on time as promised. The other is their personal safety. Unless a model has been employed for hardcore, she will expect not to be touched and not to be asked for any physical contact at all. Photographers who infringe either of those aspects will find it impossible to obtain models. I would love to photograph some of the Russian and Ukrainian models but I can hardly imagine how difficult communication would be.

Capn - thank you too, my friend. As I said in reply to Khan, I will indeed say where my work is published but I shall wait until some has actually gone online as the site might not take too kindly to having its schedule revealed in advance.

CT - thank you. Will do, thanks to Khan's permission.

In conclusion for now, I will just say that the act of working with a model is delightful, or so I have found with the models I have worked with already. They are lovely beyond words. But the recruitment and management process is one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. It is one obstacle after another. When the model is in front of the camera, it all seems worthwhile but it requires an inordinate amount of sheer hassle and blind alleys to get to that point. I hope it gets easier because otherwise I will have to try something more straightforward, such as becoming Prime Minister.

11-15-12  06:14pm - 739 days #11
pat362 (371)
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^Not being familair with the laws in the UK. Do you have to follow something like 2257 when it comes to hiring of models? Long live the Brown Coats.

11-15-12  11:35pm - 739 days #12
Capn (28)
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Location: Near the Beer!
Not that I am aware of, but CP is in a better position to repond on that.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-16-12  01:48am - 739 days #13
Claypaws (44)
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Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Originally Posted by pat362:


^Not being familair with the laws in the UK. Do you have to follow something like 2257 when it comes to hiring of models?


UK law does not require this. However, most sites, whether UK, European or US are hosted and registered in the US and therefore require 2257 to be followed. Most sites registered outside the US will anyway require 2257 compliance. For all practical purposes, 2257 compliance is a de facto requirement regardless of whether it is legally required.

You stand little chance of selling any content without 2257 compliance.

Even within the UK itself, where 2257 compliance as such is not required, it is still illegal to shoot models who do not meet minimum age requirements. Edited on Nov 16, 2012, 02:00am (Claypaws: Edited for clarity)

11-16-12  08:56am - 739 days #14
Denner (233)
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Location: Denmark
A lot of fine answers/inputs from Claypaws here, Thanks!
"I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle"

11-16-12  10:32am - 739 days #15
Khan
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Location: USA
Claypaws, when/if you're so inclined will be fine. Though you told me, my lips are sealed.

I know I mentioned it in our email but I'll again say congratulations on selling some of your work. That in itself speaks to the quality of your work.

Your remarks reminded me of the headaches involved with getting and working with amateur models. I don't envy you that part of the job. I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the US I found the biggest pain in the butt (as models) was strippers. Oh, and wait until the first time you have to deal with an upset boyfriend/husband who doesn't approve of his lady being seen in the buff by the whole world. That's fun, to be sure ... not!

I'm sure a number of the users here hope your work will lean towards their preferred type of stuff. If you're unsure of what that is then you must have missed the many threads that focused on that.


BTW, are you doing any video or strictly photo sets?

Anyway, again, good luck with your new venture and know you're always welcome here. Senior Administrator
PornUsers.com

"To obtain a man's opinion of you, make him mad."-Oliver Wendell Holmes

11-16-12  02:34pm - 739 days #16
Claypaws (44)
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Posts: 144
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Location: UK
Thank you Denner. That is kind and great praise indeed from a respected PU member. I will continue to answer whatever I can to the best of my ability.

11-16-12  03:18pm - 739 days #17
Claypaws (44)
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Posts: 144
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Location: UK
Thank you for coming back into the thread, Khan. Thank you too for allowing me to reveal the site of my work shortly, when I feel the time is right. I knew you would of course keep confidence.

I greatly appreciate your congratulations. The one thing I am reasonably sure about is the quality of my work. If I could manage to get a steady supply of models, I would be well set. It is amazing how boring pictures look without a model

It is some consolation that you also found the amateur model procurement and management process difficult. It helps me to know that the problem is not my fault. I have not yet worked with strippers but I feel that anyone who is in it purely for the money will not be much fun to work with. Fortunately, I have not encountered an upset boyfriend or husband. The possibility of this prospect is one reason why I will not shoot from home though I would consider this with a model I had already worked with and had published.

I am well aware of the preferences of many users here and one reason for wanting to shoot is to be able to do so in a way consistent with my preferences, though some compromise to the wishes of a site must always be made. When I indicate where my first work has been published, I will say something about my intended style.

Yes I am doing video too. Much though I might like to concentrate on photos, it is not viable to do so. All sites require at least some video.

Thank you for the good luck wishes and for extending the welcome. Edited on Nov 16, 2012, 03:26pm (Claypaws: Because I never get it right first time!)

11-16-12  04:19pm - 739 days #18
jberryl69 (12)
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Models - I had fantasies of getting a Sybian and then posting ads in my local paper (or Craig's List)offering it for a ride. When they arrived I'd negotiate an exchange. I know, at $1315, it's quite an investment, but I notice there are lots of copy cats machines out there. It might be a way to stir up models - or controversy - but it seems like an intriguing idea. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

11-17-12  06:38am - 738 days #19
pat362 (371)
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Posts: 2,989
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Location: canada
I can imagine just how difficult and frustrating it must be to get good models to shoot for you. I don't have any personal information on this subject but I've read enough forums to know that this is a huge problme for anyone doing this type of work.

One contant thing that seems to repeat itself when it comes to many softocre/midcore models is that they have a boyfriend or husband who may not be all that thrilled that his girl is doing this kind of work. They like the cash it brings but would prefer they got it in a different way so it's common for said bf/husband to want to accompany the model to the shoot. This is usually a really bad idea because he will either want to have input or the girl may be uncomfortable with her guy there. Of course there are those bf/husband who discover that their significant other is doing this type of work and they get rather irrate.

I think the best thing would be to hire some professional models or semi-pro but these must be so expensive that it makes the venture not profitable. In any case. I look forward to seing some of your work. Long live the Brown Coats.

11-17-12  03:01pm - 738 days #20
Claypaws (44)
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Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Thanks for the suggestions and sympathy, pat362.

I will not allow bf/husbands to be present during a shoot. A chaperone may accompany a model to the start of a shoot, check they are happy with everything and then leave. If he won't leave, I won't do the shoot. This is pretty standard for photographers. Chaperones are just not allowed to be present during shooting for exactly the reaons you mention. They simply ruin any chance of getting a shoot to work.

Professional or semi pro models are not actually more expensive than amateur ones. Or to put it another way, amateur ones are not cheaper. They are all expensive. I might well try working with more pro type models but the pro adult models have all appeared on gazillions of sites and might be less useful to me for that reason. If I can get prior approval to shoot them, and can manage to book them, it would be a way to get a few models, true.

11-17-12  03:17pm - 738 days #21
Claypaws (44)
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Location: UK
I can now reveal the site where my work has debuted, since the first set has now been uploaded.

It is ATK Galleria and the model is Chloe Westland.

The reason I settled on ATK Galleria is that this is the site which is closest to my own style. Or to put it another way, I have to make fewer compromises to meet their requirements than to meet the requirements of most other sites.

I am making all sets fully clothed to fully nude and with plenty of tease on the way. That has always been my preference. There are occasions on which it is appropriate to start in lingerie though.

I am making some concession to toys of course. I need to shoot for a site, not just cater to my own preferences. But toys form a minority of stills content, at least. And I have less of a problem with toys in videos, where they seem to me to make much more sense. Edited on Nov 17, 2012, 03:23pm (Claypaws: edited to make site not a link.)

11-17-12  03:21pm - 738 days #22
Claypaws (44)
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Originally Posted by jberryl69:


Models - I had fantasies of getting a Sybian and then posting ads in my local paper (or Craig's List)offering it for a ride.


If buying a Sybian would get me models, I would buy one. You would be amazed at how many models either won't do adult stuff at all or won't do it for publication.

I would guess that a Sybian would not increase model takeup.

It would be fun though

11-17-12  03:58pm - 738 days #23
Capn (28)
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As you know, my friend, our preferences are on the whole quite similar in direction.

I think ATKG is a good starting point for you, as their style sits fairly well on topic for the style of content you are prepared to shoot.

I do wish you every sucess with it, but would hope in the fullness of time you would be able to branch out into your own website, which could be more focussed on your own preferences, which I still believe there is a market for. IMO There is currently a largely untapped market dealing with tease that delivers eroticism combined with softcore full frontal nudity.

As the requirements would be largely softcore / art nude level, your model pool should stay fairly buoyant.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-17-12  05:24pm - 738 days #24
jberryl69 (12)
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Originally Posted by Claypaws:


If buying a Sybian would get me models, I would buy one. You would be amazed at how many models either won't do adult stuff at all or won't do it for publication.

I would guess that a Sybian would not increase model takeup.

It would be fun though


Well, I wasn't exactly suggesting offering the ride to models as much as offering a ride to females in general. One might think that part of the negotiation for the ride is that you get to take photos and publish them, though you are correct, video would seem more appropriate. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

11-18-12  03:06pm - 737 days #25
Claypaws (44)
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Thank you Cap'n.

Starting one's own website is a daunting task and very risky. I know several photographers who have been shooting adult for websites and/or print magazines for over 10 years and are only just embarking on their own sites; or who have their own sites that are not profitable.

With your own site, you have to keep a large enough member base to cover the huge costs of shooting models and you have to produce enough content up front to get members to sign up when you launch. There is a strong possibility of making a very substantial loss. Much then depends on marketing. I have found in my other artistic endeavours that I heartily detest marketing.

Selling content to an existing site at least enables you to budget and the compromise is the price you pay for the reduced risk.

11-18-12  03:13pm - 737 days #26
Claypaws (44)
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Originally Posted by jberryl69:


Well, I wasn't exactly suggesting offering the ride to models as much as offering a ride to females in general. One might think that part of the negotiation for the ride is that you get to take photos and publish them, though you are correct, video would seem more appropriate.


Ah, I see what you mean.

As I said, to my great frustration, of the small proportion of models who will do adult at all, many will only do it if it is not for publication.

I think you would get a greater takeup on the Sybian if you were going to photograph them for your own use than for publication.

Most models are not full time. They are females in general who do a bit of modelling on the side. They usually have other jobs and a lot are worried they would be sacked if they were published. And very many of them will not allow video.

If you care to try out your Sybian idea, I will be interested to know how you get on.

11-18-12  05:27pm - 737 days #27
jberryl69 (12)
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There was a couple out of France, who published video's under the name ange.et.d.mon at ange.et.d.mon.erog.fr. That site no longer exists nor can I find them out on the web at all.

The point being, they were an amateur couple who didn't charge for their sex vids and to hide her identity she would wear a mask across her eyes. I found them originally on a tube site before I was able to find their blog. I sure miss their stuff cause it's right up my alley (well most of it was). I occasionally search for them but to no avail. I'm just thinking there are ways around the anonymous desires. If it ain't grits, it must be a Yankee.

If you're going to lay her head over the pool table and fuck her throat, get your fucking hand off her throat!

11-18-12  06:04pm - 736 days #28
pat362 (371)
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Originally Posted by Claypaws:


Thank you Cap'n.

Starting one's own website is a daunting task and very risky. I know several photographers who have been shooting adult for websites and/or print magazines for over 10 years and are only just embarking on their own sites; or who have their own sites that are not profitable.


My suggestion is that you avoid at all cost starting your own site. You are almost guaranted to lose all of your money and that is never a good thing. There were a couple of enterprising individuals on another forum with the idea that they could start shooting some porn and start their own site and these guys had no clue what kind of money they needed to start nor where they should go to hire gilrs.

At least when you shoot for other studios then you get paid right away when you deliver your photos or video but owning a site means that you only make money once you get enough paying members to cover all the cost invloved with owning and running a site. The other huge advantage is that it doesn't hurt your pocket book if your content is stolen and plastered all over the tube sites. Long live the Brown Coats.

11-18-12  11:35pm - 736 days #29
Capn (28)
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Location: Near the Beer!
If that were truly the situation, we would have a few megasites catering to mass ( midcore-hardcore ) market & very little niche material available...


Oh wait......

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-19-12  03:13am - 736 days #30
Ed2009 (7)
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Location: Wales, UK
With costs rising, content sharing increasing, the growth of password sharing sites, higher banking costs, the downturn/crunch/recession, people willing to spend less and referral commissions becoming a more common requirement of making sales, it's amazing there are as many sites still around as there are.

I'm guessing that some of it is down to surviving sites benefiting from picking up trade from those who haven't made it (of which the list is LONG).

My logic is, if I can keep my sites running now then when (should that be if?) the financial state of everything improves, then I'll be able to invest in loads of excellent new content/features and come out of it with sites that are better than ever. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity.

11-19-12  03:15am - 736 days #31
Ed2009 (7)
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If anyone is considering starting an adult website right now, I'd strongly recommend that they don't bother, or at least leave it a year or so. Unless you have major backing, starting up now would be suicidal. Webmaster of StripGameCentral and A Measure of Curiosity.

11-19-12  07:11am - 736 days #32
Claypaws (44)
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Location: UK
Originally Posted by Capn:


If that were truly the situation, we would have a few megasites catering to mass ( midcore-hardcore ) market & very little niche material available...


Oh wait......

Cap'n.



11-19-12  07:20am - 736 days #33
Claypaws (44)
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Location: UK
Originally Posted by pat362:


My suggestion is that you avoid at all cost starting your own site. You are almost guaranted to lose all of your money and that is never a good thing.


Exactly!And people should be in no doubt. You can lose a life-changing amount of money.

11-19-12  10:04am - 736 days #34
Capn (28)
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I am pleased Ed has replied on this thread.

Maybe you might be able to help each other out some?

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-19-12  10:33am - 736 days #35
messmer (137)
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Originally Posted by Claypaws:


I am making all sets fully clothed to fully nude and with plenty of tease on the way. That has always been my preference. There are occasions on which it is appropriate to start in lingerie though.


Bless you, mate! May you be very successful in your endeavors and bring some class to Galleria. Many will disagree with me but I found most of their sets aggravatingly bland. So I wish lots of beautiful models upon you, who wear enough clothes to make a strip worthwhile.

And may Galleria never decide to edit your sets so that they will end up looking like most of their others, as in: three items of clothing taken off before the first page of the set is half done!

DO they do any editing or do they accept your work as is?

I know one thing, if you become a regular contributor to ATK Galleria and they don't attempt to change your way of shooting, I will once again be a subscriber down the road!

No need to answer, your new "employer" might not like what I had to say and take it out on you if he/she doesn't like your reply.

11-19-12  03:00pm - 736 days #36
TheSquirrel (53)
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Registered: Oct 29, '08
Location: UK
First of all congratulations to Claypaws. I am both pleased for you, and at the same time very disappointed. You have become one of the best reviewers in a very short time, your integrity appears sound, and you have great enthusiasm for the subject. I do not think you should have been designated webmaster. You are not a webmaster, and a little note that you contribute to this that or the other site should be enough to allow you to continue as normal here, and that includes reviews.

Is there a suggestion that the integrity of PU is brought into question because you contribute to one site and review another? You could argue that, but I could argue the integrity of TBP/PU is already questionable as they make money from linking to the porn sites that are reviewed. I have no trouble with that myself, but for me it certainly brings TBP/PU integrity into question far more than allowing you to continue to do reviews.

For me, a big cloud hanging over TBP/PU is the linking back to Porn Pros after link removal. The link was put back without a word as to why this happened. Pink Panther and myself questioned this. Not a word from TBP/PU staff. For me this says a thousand times more about TBP/PU credibility than allowing you to continue to do reviews.

This isn't an attack on TBP/PU, although it may sound like that, because I understand there can never be 100% credibility and integrity due to the nature of the beast. I still come to TBP/PU for 90% of porn reviews and comments. It's just reducing Claypaws to webmaster status unnecessarily deprives this site of a very valuable contributor. It's a question of degrees and relativity. Maybe you shouldn't have experienced webmasters doing reviews of competitors' websites - hmmm, come to think of it, that would be fun.

Claypaws, I hope you both enjoy your hobby and make some money. No one can ask more than that. As someone who makes money out of a hobby, I hope you never descend into some interminable black cloud of despair containing no hope, from which there seems to be no escape. I hope you don't start to hate that hobby with an intense passion like I did, and still do to a certain extent. That hobby can become a job and a chore.

I started out with the intention of making money out of it in the first place, and certainly knew what I was getting into. I am not disillusioned, and have always been realistic. I have always been money oriented and always will be.

I am sure there will come a time when the whole thing drives you round the bend and leaves you feeling tired and jaded, but the main thing is you are living that dream, so you get a big thumbs up from me. I think sometimes you just have to do what you want, because life is too short not to. If you are competitive and want success, I think it's good to have other hobbies and other interests, to keep things in perspective, and in case it doesn't all live up to expectations. I wish you much luck with your endeavours. Edited on Nov 19, 2012, 04:12pm

11-20-12  05:44am - 735 days #37
Claypaws (44)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Originally Posted by messmer:


Bless you, mate! May you be very successful in your endeavors


Thank you!


Originally Posted by messmer:

So I wish lots of beautiful models upon you, who wear enough clothes to make a strip worthwhile.


Wherever possible, I am doing exactly that. Some members do like the no-bra look though so I have to include some of that type of set too. Rest assured, I have a strong personal preference for a long strip. I do have to achieve some kind of balance though. Some sets are bound to have a scantier start becuase there are also members who want to imagine a girl walking into a room wearing next to nothing.

Originally Posted by messmer:

... three items of clothing taken off before the first page of the set is half done


On each of the sets I have shot so far, I have managed around two pages before anything comes off. I shall have to see if members give any feedback on that.

Originally Posted by messmer:

Do they do any editing or do they accept your work as is?


They do not edit the work. I remove duff shots before submitting and they don't delete anything.

They ask for more of one type of shot, fewer of another but those are tweaks, not wholesale changes of style. I have a lot of artistic freedom.

11-20-12  06:07am - 735 days #38
Claypaws (44)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


First of all congratulations to Claypaws. I am both pleased for you, and at the same time very disappointed. You have become one of the best reviewers in a very short time, your integrity appears sound, and you have great enthusiasm for the subject.


Thank you. Throughout life, I have always followed the principle that my work can be bought but I cannot.

But we also need to be beyond any possibility of anyone thinking there might be a bias. Therefore, I chose not to write reviews as soon as I began discussions regarding publishing my work. If I contribute to one site and give an unfavourable review to another, the receiver of the poor review might think I am trying to get business for my host. That would never be the case but I do not want there to be any scope for anyone to think it might be.

Also, I would feel uncomfortable now about criticising the work of any other photographer unless they privately ask for criticism, as many have done in the past. It is usually bad form to criticise when one is exposed to counter attacks.

Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:

Claypaws, I hope you both enjoy your hobby and make some money. No one can ask more than that. As someone who makes money out of a hobby, I hope you never descend into some interminable black cloud of despair containing no hope, from which there seems to be no escape. I hope you don't start to hate that hobby with an intense passion like I did, and still do to a certain extent. That hobby can become a job and a chore.

I started out with the intention of making money out of it in the first place, and certainly knew what I was getting into. I am not disillusioned, and have always been realistic. I have always been money oriented and always will be.


Thank you. Was your "hobby" shooting models or something completely unrelated?

Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


I am sure there will come a time when the whole thing drives you round the bend and leaves you feeling tired and jaded,


That has already happened, to some extent, because of the sheer difficulty of model recruitment. It takes about 20 times the time to recruit a model as to shoot her. If somebody would just give me a list of models and arrange the dates and venues, so I could spend my time shooting them, it would be easy. Shooting is by far the simplest part of the whole thing.

Originally Posted by TheSquirrel:


but the main thing is you are living that dream, so you get a big thumbs up from me. I think sometimes you just have to do what you want, because life is too short not to. If you are competitive and want success, I think it's good to have other hobbies and other interests, to keep things in perspective, and in case it doesn't all live up to expectations. I wish you much luck with your endeavours.


That is all well said. I just felt I had to give this a go because I passionately want to do it and I think I can be good at it, if I can get the models. Indeed, if there are enough adult-level models over here to get. I know where to look and how to approach. But it takes time to open all the locked doors.

I have lots of other interests and activities too. Enough for several lifetimes in fact.

11-20-12  10:58am - 735 days #39
Capn (28)
Active User



Posts: 1,699
Registered: Sep 05, '09
Location: Near the Beer!
Reference your model sourcing:

OneModelPlace dot com is a mainly US based online agency, which has a large amount of UK based subscribers.

Pure Storm dot com is a good resource too, which tends to be more UK based.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-20-12  04:02pm - 735 days #40
Claypaws (44)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Thanks Capn. Yes, I know those two. Purestorm has a requirement for minimum number of models shot before you can join it and I haven't reached that yet. That's what I meant when I said some doors take time to unlock.

I'm a member of a couple of other model sites too. The problem there is that 99% of the registered models will not do adult. Of the 1% who do, more than half will not go beyond UK Magazine level (open leg without spreading). Of those that will, many will not do it for publication. Of those that are left, most will not do video.

Also, a lot of models will only shoot with photographers who have a lot of references from models, which you can only get by shooting the models who won't work with you because you haven't got enough references. This is why it is much easier for photographers who began 10 or more years ago, before there was the current atmosphere of suspecting every male of being a lunatic. High profile sex abuse cases make things even more difficult for decent folk who treat women with respect.

11-20-12  07:01pm - 734 days #41
TheSquirrel (53)
Active User



Posts: 693
Registered: Oct 29, '08
Location: UK
Originally Posted by Claypaws:




Thank you. Was your "hobby" shooting models or something completely unrelated?


My hobby is completely unrelated.

You sound quite well adjusted (more so than I am!). It's good to have a number of interests, and have a realistic perspective.

11-21-12  04:55am - 734 days #42
Claypaws (44)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Thanks Squirrel.

11-21-12  09:29am - 734 days #43
Capn (28)
Active User



Posts: 1,699
Registered: Sep 05, '09
Location: Near the Beer!
Originally Posted by Claypaws:


Also, a lot of models will only shoot with photographers who have a lot of references from models, which you can only get by shooting the models who won't work with you because you haven't got enough references. This is why it is much easier for photographers who began 10 or more years ago, before there was the current atmosphere of suspecting every male of being a lunatic. High profile sex abuse cases make things even more difficult for decent folk who treat women with respect.


Also the attitude displayed by some/most gonzoid hardcore sites hasn't helped any either!

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-21-12  12:06pm - 734 days #44
Claypaws (44)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Originally Posted by Capn:


Also the attitude displayed by some/most gonzoid hardcore sites hasn't helped any either!

Cap'n.


How very true!

11-21-12  12:18pm - 734 days #45
lk2fireone (194)
Active User



Posts: 1,545
Registered: Nov 14, '08
Location: CA
Originally Posted by Claypaws:


Also, a lot of models will only shoot with photographers who have a lot of references from models, which you can only get by shooting the models who won't work with you because you haven't got enough references. This is why it is much easier for photographers who began 10 or more years ago, before there was the current atmosphere of suspecting every male of being a lunatic. High profile sex abuse cases make things even more difficult for decent folk who treat women with respect.


Can you drop by your local police station and get an affidavit from them that you are an upstanding citizen without any current arrest warrants?

I know that when you go to a medical doctor's office, or a dentist's office, they usually display a paper on the wall certifying they are authorized to practice their profession.

Seems like photographers could do the same thing, to reassure the models they are in excellent hands (that will only grope them with permission).

11-21-12  03:34pm - 734 days #46
Claypaws (44)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Originally Posted by lk2fireone:


Can you drop by your local police station and get an affidavit from them that you are an upstanding citizen without any current arrest warrants?


Probably not. If you tried, they would probably arrest you on suspicion of being suspicious. If you succeeded, models would probably be more suspicious of why you could not get references from models instead of the police.

Ah, now if could do a photoshoot with a policewoman....

11-21-12  06:31pm - 733 days #47
messmer (137)
Active User



Posts: 2,512
Registered: Sep 12, '07
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by Claypaws:


Probably not. If you tried, they would probably arrest you on suspicion of being suspicious. If you succeeded, models would probably be more suspicious of why you could not get references from models instead of the police.

Ah, now if could do a photoshoot with a policewoman....


I am starting to really appreciate your sense of humour, Claypaws. May you never leave this forum!


11-22-12  03:38pm - 733 days #48
Claypaws (44)
Active Webmaster


Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Originally Posted by messmer:


I am starting to really appreciate your sense of humour, Claypaws. May you never leave this forum!




Thank you, messmer. I use it on models too. It's really fun when they start falling about, laughing. Well, laughing anyway. I'll stick around the forum too.

11-22-12  04:02pm - 733 days #49
Capn (28)
Active User



Posts: 1,699
Registered: Sep 05, '09
Location: Near the Beer!
I am very pleased to hear that, my friend.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-30-12  09:25am - 725 days #50
Advent (35)
Active Webmaster




Posts: 83
Registered: Aug 13, '09
Location: Tarzana, CA
Hi Claypaws, so glad to have you on board and it was so nice to spend time with you in London. We will have to do it again soon.

Advent/Melissa Business Development Manager
Please feel free to contact me with concerns or comments, I would love to hear from you.

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