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11-12-12  12:37pm - 745 days Original Post - #1
messmer (137)
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A glimpse behind the scenes!

I would dearly love to know how the various picture sites are doing when it comes to their user base. I subscribed to three different sites this past month and was grievously disappointed in all of them. What a difference in emphasis in only five short years!

Are there really that many people who prefer to get right to the point (complete nudity) within the first ten pictures, that the sites would publish one picture set after the other that is so incredibly boring to me. I would really like some input from picture lovers on this! What makes you like these sets? Okay, I understand that you like certain models, but they are only a drop in a bucket when it comes to daily updates. So what is it that makes a hundred pictures of complete nudity so interesting to you that you would either give a set high marks or download it?

Am I so tiny a minority that the webmasters (except for AJ's who promised more models of the housewife type who dress according to their age and not like teenies) can completely ignore my complaints and go on in the same monotonous way, day after day?

However I suspect that only a look at their user base would give me the truth (has it gone up or down?) so ignore, just my usual and very repetitive baying at the moon!

Howl!

11-12-12  11:38pm - 745 days #2
Capn (28)
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As you know, my friend, I am with you on this one.

Although I may have been quiet of late, I am still on my crusade.
Few Webmanagers pay anything other than lip service.
I still cherish the few that do.
Whenever I do kick off on a subject, I usually get a fair ration of support, so there is potentially a market there for those that wish to exploit it.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-13-12  08:11am - 744 days #3
Denner (233)
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Good point, messmer - and maybe, just maybe - that's the reason why quite a few here are fed up with only "wham-bam-thank-you-mam" - sites....this user is one! "I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle"

11-13-12  11:04am - 744 days #4
messmer (137)
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Location: Canada
Originally Posted by Denner:


Good point, messmer - and maybe, just maybe - that's the reason why quite a few here are fed up with only "wham-bam-thank-you-mam" - sites....this user is one!


Thanks for the moral support, Denner, but it seems strange that quite a few of us in here are fed up with all the cookie cutter porn in pictures and videos, yet this is not reflected in what most sites offer. We`ve got to be a tiny minority, or the market would reflect more of our taste and less of that `wham-bam-thank-you-mam porn you are talking about.

11-13-12  11:07am - 744 days #5
messmer (137)
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Originally Posted by Capn:


As you know, my friend, I am with you on this one.

Although I may have been quiet of late, I am still on my crusade.
Few Webmanagers pay anything other than lip service.
I still cherish the few that do.
Whenever I do kick off on a subject, I usually get a fair ration of support, so there is potentially a market there for those that wish to exploit it.

Cap'n.


I know you are, Cap`n! If the opinions in connection with the subject (expressed now and in the past) are any indication the pendulum should swing the other way soon. Trouble is, there is no sign yet that it will do so, except for the promise I got from one webmaster. See above.

11-13-12  02:33pm - 744 days #6
Horndog (0)
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Could you please name some site names please, messmer? I just don't like paying to look at clothed women. I can do that anytime for free! Everybody is different. I guess one person's opinion of too much nudity is another person's opinion of not enough nudity. My attitude is one can't have enough nudity as long as there is at least variety in the poses.

11-13-12  02:51pm - 744 days #7
Capn (28)
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Well Horndog, nudity is all over.

Most of the artsy softcore sites feature that.

Try metart as a prime example.

We are not asking for clothed shots for the entireity of the set, if that were the case, OnlyTease would be fine, which it isn't!

All we are asking for is just an even balance.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!
Edited on Nov 13, 2012, 02:56pm

11-13-12  03:15pm - 744 days #8
messmer (137)
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Originally Posted by Horndog:


Could you please name some site names please, messmer? I just don't like paying to look at clothed women. I can do that anytime for free! Everybody is different. I guess one person's opinion of too much nudity is another person's opinion of not enough nudity. My attitude is one can't have enough nudity as long as there is at least variety in the poses.


LOL. You don't need for me to give you the names of any sites, Horndog. Let's just say "all of them, except one!"

PS. Just in case you misunderstood. I am not looking for pictures of fully dressed women, I am looking for pictures of fully dressed women getting slowly and teasingly undressed, preferably clad in some nice slinky lingerie, until they are completely nude. I, too, love nudes but would like to see some balance, as the Cap'n wrote. Edited on Nov 13, 2012, 03:19pm

11-20-12  08:19am - 737 days #9
Secretease com (3)
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It's an interesting point and I'm considering bringing in the occasional set that goes to fully unclothed nudity.

At the moment models show everything but keep most clothes on to keep the secretary look going throughout the entire set.

I sometimes work with models who rarely or don't work to 'adult' levels but have been requested by members. For example Charley Atwell and Brook Little. But this is not the general rule.

~Mitch~ Secretease.com - A 100% exclusive site for lovers of Sexy Executive Secretaries hard at flirt in short skirts, stockings, high heels, tight shirts and other sex-ecutive attire. More than a tease...

Secretease operates non-regional pricing.

11-20-12  10:42am - 737 days #10
Capn (28)
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Interesting input, Mitch.

For myself, both fully clothed & full nude are prerequisite for a satisfying set.
I am not averse to uniforms, but it all has to come off.
What you describe, I would call flashing rather than a striptease per se.
All too often, a potentially first class strip sequence is spoiled for me because full nudity is not reached.
The removal of shoes & hose can be a particularly erotic part of the strip sequence, which is almost always omitted.
As a rule of thumb, I find the most pleasing sets to comprise 1/3 fully clothed, 1/3 slow striptease & 1/3 full nude. In the nude segment I prefer a fifty-fifty split between 'coy' poses & more 'explicit.'
In this context I would define 'explicit' as softcore clear full body nudity.
If a model was prepared to do 'art nude' I would say that was a sufficient level.

As I said in a reply to a review of your site some time ago:

For me softcore full frontal nudity means:

No clothing, No hands groping spoiling the view, no toys, no gynacology.


Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!
Edited on Nov 20, 2012, 11:08am

11-20-12  06:41pm - 737 days #11
skunk (0)
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Originally Posted by Horndog:


Could you please name some site names please, messmer? I just don't like paying to look at clothed women. I can do that anytime for free! Everybody is different. I guess one person's opinion of too much nudity is another person's opinion of not enough nudity. My attitude is one can't have enough nudity as long as there is at least variety in the poses.


Hi Horndog
you may like the site i do have a look and let me know.

sexxximps http://www.sexxximps.com

11-21-12  04:38am - 737 days #12
Claypaws (44)
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Originally Posted by Capn:


In this context I would define 'explicit' as softcore clear full body nudity.
If a model was prepared to do 'art nude' I would say that was a sufficient level.


Your whole answer is very well put and very interesting. I agree entirely with the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 concept and that is what I personally prefer too. (In fact, I think I expressed that preference elsewhere).

But there is something in the terminology of the quoted passage that needs clarifying.

"Art nude" means (i.e. all models use the term to mean) nude but with legs kept together. It is clear that the model has genitals (!) but they are hardly more than hinted at and definitely not clearly seen.

"Explicit" nude covers all the nude levels that are more explicit than art nude. "Explicit", "open leg" and "adult" are synonymous terms. "Adult" is the most used term for such levels.

"Adult" has three softcore levels:

1) UK Magazine, also known as femjoy level. This is open leg, legs parted to expose the genitals clearly. Hands can be contacting the body and can be close to the genitals but the hands are not spreading the genitals. Most so called "art nude" sites go to this level. In other words, most "art nude" sites exceed art nude level and models who only model to "art nude level" would consider "art nude" sites to be "explicit" or "adult" rather than "art nude".

2) US Magazine. At this level, there is open leg and the hands are spreading the genitals but without insertion of fingers or toys.

3) Continental. Hands, fingers or toys are inserted in the genitals, with or without spreading.

The term "genitals" can include both holes that are below waist level.

Those are the meanings of the levels as used universally in all model recruitment resources.

Some adult websites classify continental as a subcategory of hardcore but most models would classify continental as a subcategory of adult softcore and so would I.

In the UK, the great majority of models will not do any "Adult" levels. That is, they will not model at any of the three numbered subcategories of "adult" that I have described.

Within model resources, the most common sentence in portfolios is "No adult. I will not do any open leg so please do not ask". This is frequently in block capitals. Edited on Nov 21, 2012, 04:45am

11-21-12  09:23am - 736 days #13
Capn (28)
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Art nude or level 1 is fine for me.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-21-12  09:37am - 736 days #14
Secretease com (3)
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Posts: 18
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Location: UK
Originally Posted by Capn:


What you describe, I would call flashing rather than a striptease per se.


Hi Capn,

I think flashing implies a brief glimpse or look, which isn't the case on Secretease. It's US mag or Continental with clothes on and boobs out.

I'd also be interested in messmer's views as the OP.

~Mitch~ Secretease.com - A 100% exclusive site for lovers of Sexy Executive Secretaries hard at flirt in short skirts, stockings, high heels, tight shirts and other sex-ecutive attire. More than a tease...

Secretease operates non-regional pricing.

11-21-12  10:12am - 736 days #15
messmer (137)
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Registered: Sep 12, '07
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by Claypaws:


I agree entirely with the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 concept and that is what I personally prefer too. (In fact, I think I expressed that preference elsewhere).

US Magazine. At this level, there is open leg and the hands are spreading the genitals but without insertion of fingers or toys.

In the UK, the great majority of models will not do any "Adult" levels. That is, they will not model at any of the three numbered subcategories of "adult" that I have described.

Within model resources, the most common sentence in portfolios is "No adult. I will not do any open leg so please do not ask". This is frequently in block capitals.


I know this is in response to the Cap'n but the above is basically what I am looking for, Claypaws, and, boy, will you have a hard time finding a model that suits the subscribers of Galleria if most U.K. models refuse to do "adult!" I found that, generally, sets without open leg scored very low unless the model herself was absolutely stunning and got points on looks alone.

No wonder you sound frustrated about all the hard work in finding models and setting up shoots! I have seen all the negative remarks in the various ATK sites I have subscribed to every time a model was too bashful about spreading, or if she did spread but tried to hide this behind her hand!

I wish you loads of luck and congratulations on the publication of your first set.

11-21-12  12:04pm - 736 days #16
Claypaws (44)
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Posts: 144
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Location: UK
Thank you very much messmer for the sympathy on difficulty and the congrats as well as saying what you are looking for.

I simply will not shoot a model who does not do spreading. I am actually casting for models who do continental level. In each shoot, I want to include one toys set and one with finger insertion. For all the rest, I am shooting US mag level. That way, site members who like toys get something and I can do most of the shoot at my preferred US mag level.

If necessary, I would do a shoot entirely at US mag level. But if they will only go to UK mag level, I will not shoot them at all.

The difficulty of getting enough models even at this level is the only thing that would make me give up. After all, the model is a fairly essential ingredient of the process!

11-21-12  12:48pm - 736 days #17
messmer (137)
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Location: Canada
Originally Posted by Claypaws:


The difficulty of getting enough models even at this level is the only thing that would make me give up. After all, the model is a fairly essential ingredient of the process!


One would think so! I shouldn't laugh but that WAS funny!

11-21-12  02:07pm - 736 days #18
Capn (28)
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Location: Near the Beer!
Originally Posted by Secretease com:


Hi Capn,

I think flashing implies a brief glimpse or look, which isn't the case on Secretease. It's US mag or Continental with clothes on and boobs out.



That is a beauty of still photography.

It can be as brief or as long as you like.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just stating my preference.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

11-21-12  03:37pm - 736 days #19
Claypaws (44)
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Posts: 144
Registered: May 16, '12
Location: UK
Originally Posted by messmer:


I shouldn't laugh but that WAS funny!


You SHOULD and it was MEANT to be

I tried doing a shoot without a model but I got bored and fell asleep.

11-21-12  06:29pm - 736 days #20
messmer (137)
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Posts: 2,512
Registered: Sep 12, '07
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by Claypaws:


You SHOULD and it was MEANT to be

I tried doing a shoot without a model but I got bored and fell asleep.


LOL .. again! I felt guilty about laughing in connection with the sentence that preceded it because I felt your frustration!! It sounded a bit like gallows humour.

11-22-12  03:44pm - 735 days #21
Claypaws (44)
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Location: UK
Originally Posted by messmer:


LOL .. again! I felt guilty about laughing in connection with the sentence that preceded it because I felt your frustration!! It sounded a bit like gallows humour.


No need to feel guilty. I would make clear if I really were upset about something.

The last sentence was not funny, unlike this one.

11-22-12  06:40pm - 735 days #22
pat362 (371)
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Location: canada
Originally Posted by Claypaws:


The difficulty of getting enough models even at this level is the only thing that would make me give up. After all, the model is a fairly essential ingredient of the process!


We are still talking about you taking pictures and making videos? The ingredient comment made me think of Hannibal Lecter. I really don't want to read about you eating one or more of your models.....At least not unless it's the more common use of eating a model and not the Hannibal one where it involves fava beans and a nice chianti.

Yes! I have a twisted sense of humour. Too many years of watching British comedies. Long live the Brown Coats.

12-02-12  04:50pm - 725 days #23
Claypaws (44)
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Location: UK
Originally Posted by pat362:


We are still talking about you taking pictures and making videos? The ingredient comment made me think of Hannibal Lecter. I really don't want to read about you eating one or more of your models.....At least not unless it's the more common use of eating a model and not the Hannibal one where it involves fava beans and a nice chianti.

Yes! I have a twisted sense of humour. Too many years of watching British comedies.


That's funny! I've eaten with a couple of models but not actually tried eating one yet.

12-02-12  06:07pm - 725 days #24
pat362 (371)
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Location: canada
^The kind of discussion you have with them during dinner might be of interest...Then again maybe they wouldn't if the conversation makes them appear less than flattering. Long live the Brown Coats.

12-03-12  03:11pm - 724 days #25
Claypaws (44)
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Location: UK
The girls I have eaten with just talk about normal everyday things like the offices they work in or what they had for breakfast.

12-03-12  09:03pm - 724 days #26
graymane (31)
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As you already know, comrade messmer, I'm one of your enthusiastic cheerleaders, and my pom-poms are-a-waving an' I'm doin' back-flips down the sidelines in support of this one. (thread)

Sigh! Same-ol'-same-ol' .....Seems we're Always fighting' a never-ending battle with these close-minded gold diggers ... although we who chant for mere improvements are many, the studios remain entrenched with the power of holding what we want, exercising greed, caring not and letting our cries relentlessly fall on deaf ears.
But ....
Hang in there, warrior .... "the word is mightier than the sword." ummm, eh, whomever authored the latter, I must hasten to add: ..... Whether you can attach said quote to anything having to do with this dilemma is any body's guess ....... jus' popped in to my mind, though, an' wouldn't let go.

BTW.... allow me, if you will, to seize on the moment here to reiterate an ongoing rant of mine that continues to aggravate another festering sore brought on by apparent airheads who run some of these sites and who're imposing some of this worthless crap onto their members:
Namely ..... arbitrarily incorporating still photo shoots in video clips we aren't paying for, or wish to see.
Example: ... I click on a particularly tempting solo scene expecting to see this delectable babe give me some moves that'll wake up my arthritic libido, only to be deflated by seeing just flashbulbs poppin' all over the place and my "babe" posing completely motionless sporting a big smile as she exchanges quips with the cameramen and crew.

12-04-12  10:26am - 723 days #27
messmer (137)
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Posts: 2,512
Registered: Sep 12, '07
Location: Canada
Originally Posted by graymane:


As you already know, comrade messmer, I'm one of your enthusiastic cheerleaders, and my pom-poms are-a-waving an' I'm doin' back-flips down the sidelines in support of this one. (thread)

Sigh! Same-ol'-same-ol' .....Seems we're Always fighting' a never-ending battle with these close-minded gold diggers ... although we who chant for mere improvements are many, the studios remain entrenched with the power of holding what we want, exercising greed, caring not and letting our cries relentlessly fall on deaf ears.
But ....
Hang in there, warrior .... "the word is mightier than the sword." ummm, eh, whomever authored the latter, I must hasten to add: ..... Whether you can attach said quote to anything having to do with this dilemma is any body's guess ....... jus' popped in to my mind, though, an' wouldn't let go.

BTW.... allow me, if you will, to seize on the moment here to reiterate an ongoing rant of mine that continues to aggravate another festering sore brought on by apparent airheads who run some of these sites and who're imposing some of this worthless crap onto their members:
Namely ..... arbitrarily incorporating still photo shoots in video clips we aren't paying for, or wish to see.
Example: ... I click on a particularly tempting solo scene expecting to see this delectable babe give me some moves that'll wake up my arthritic libido, only to be deflated by seeing just flashbulbs poppin' all over the place and my "babe" posing completely motionless sporting a big smile as she exchanges quips with the cameramen and crew.



Hey, graymane, thanks for your input and moral support. I never know whom to blame when it comes to the present drought in teasing through a prolonged strip!? I tend to take it out on the web owners and photographers but surely they wouldn't push something that is so unpopular with most of us here if it wasn't the taste of the majority of their subscribers. It is my theory that extreme youth has invaded porn as subscribers, and most of them have never heard of lingerie except for thongs, so to them it is normal not to see something slinkly and enticing.

It is also in the nature of youth to want to go straight to the "money shot" (in this case full nudity) and forget all those foolish, time wasting preliminaries that go with a full strip.

There are exceptions to my theory, of course. See one of the responses above that definitely was NOT by a young cub.

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