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Porn Users Forum » Regional Pricing Boycott!
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05-13-12  01:02am - 891 days Original Post - #1
Capn (28)
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Regional Pricing Boycott!

Well, I have started it.
I really hate the greedy principle that this is based upon.

Anyone with me?

Name & shame here, please?

This insidious & underhand practice needs pulling up & killing off like the bindweed it is.

I would start the list myself, but I have very little in the way of subscriptions on the go at the moment; certainly none involving regional pricing!

Cap'n.

Courtesy of BadMrFrosty:

Here are a few of the culprits that spring to mind:

Met Art
Joy Mii (Which is odd as Fem Joy does not)
No rest network

All of these do it:

http://www.pornusers.com/site_company.html?id=5860

Penthouse

Evil Angel

In Focus Girls

BRAZZERS

Alison Angel

Housewife Kelly

Bryci Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!
Edited on Apr 11, 2013, 04:29pm

05-14-12  12:38am - 890 days #2
slutty (111)
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To be fair, lots of things have regional pricing (cars, booze, smokes, and gas, just to name a few off the top of my head).

But I wold be happy to join your boycott nonetheless, is there a quick way to find if a site does such a thing (aside from PUs complaining about it on the sites page)? Bunny Lebowski: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars.
Brandt: Ah hahahahaha! Wonderful woman. We're all, we're all very fond of her. Very free-spirited.

05-14-12  06:49am - 890 days #3
BadMrFrosty (56)
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Originally Posted by slutty:


To be fair, lots of things have regional pricing (cars, booze, smokes, and gas, just to name a few off the top of my head).

But I wold be happy to join your boycott nonetheless, is there a quick way to find if a site does such a thing (aside from PUs complaining about it on the sites page)?


Very true but the things you mentioned are tangible goods that have to be moved from one place to another thus introducing a variable cost depending on where the item was produced and where it is sold. Something that is intangible like a digital porn video has the same costs regardless of the physical location of the customer so should cost the same to all.

Here are a few of the culprits that spring to mind:

Met Art
Joy Mii (Which is odd as Fem Joy does not)
No rest network The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Frank Zappa

05-14-12  09:43am - 890 days #4
Toadsith (48)
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Ok, since this seems to be such a huge issue for people, I've finally decided to join the fray. There is one very simple solution that I'm surprised has not apparently been suggested yet: Anonymous Proxy Servers

Proxy 4 Free tests and posts links to proxy sites located all over the world, but the vast majority are in the United States. Using that should allow you to sign up with the lower price.

You just click on the server name, that'll take you to the home page, where you'll see a search box like on Google. Just type in the address of the billing page and then you'll be presented the page as ported through the proxy server. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" ¡ Updated Link with Live Video filmed in Copenhagen in 1967 !

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05-14-12  09:49am - 890 days #5
BadMrFrosty (56)
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Originally Posted by Toadsith:


Ok, since this seems to be such a huge issue for people, I've finally decided to join the fray. There is one very simple solution that I'm surprised has not apparently been suggested yet: Anonymous Proxy Servers

Proxy 4 Free tests and posts links to proxy sites located all over the world, but the vast majority are in the United States. Using that should allow you to sign up with the lower price.

You just click on the server name, that'll take you to the home page, where you'll see a search box like on Google. Just type in the address of the billing page and then you'll be presented the page as ported through the proxy server.


This is indeed a solution but sending credit card details via a open proxy that may or may not be trustworthy is a recipe for disaster. The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Frank Zappa

05-14-12  09:53am - 890 days #6
Toadsith (48)
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Originally Posted by BadMrFrosty:


This is indeed a solution but sending credit card details via a open proxy that may or may not be trustworthy is a recipe for disaster.


They are pretty much all High Anonymous rating and frequently offer encryption. Yes, of course there is a risk, but not all that much more so than signing up with pay-sites in general. Anyway, that is why the credit card companies track your purchase history. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" ¡ Updated Link with Live Video filmed in Copenhagen in 1967 !

Second Grand Order Poobah in the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo

05-14-12  09:55am - 890 days #7
Capn (28)
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Thank you, Mr. Frosty.

This is the kind of info I want to publicise for the benefit of non-US consumers.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
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( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

05-14-12  09:58am - 890 days #8
Capn (28)
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Originally Posted by Toadsith:


Ok, since this seems to be such a huge issue for people, I've finally decided to join the fray. There is one very simple solution that I'm surprised has not apparently been suggested yet: Anonymous Proxy Servers


I appreciate you are trying to help but I am not interested in 'work arounds', as they do not address the issue.

What I am trying to do is consign the greedy & unfair practice to history.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

05-14-12  10:04am - 890 days #9
Capn (28)
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Originally Posted by BadMrFrosty:


Very true but the things you mentioned are tangible goods that have to be moved from one place to another thus introducing a variable cost depending on where the item was produced and where it is sold. Something that is intangible like a digital porn video has the same costs regardless of the physical location of the customer so should cost the same to all.


Bang on.

This is more where I am coming from.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

05-14-12  11:10am - 890 days #10
TheSquirrel (53)
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I never have never joined any site that has regional discrimination or pre checked cross selling, and never will. The same very much appplies to download limits. It will be good to see some of these companies go out of business.

There is only so much money available in the economy that will be spent on porn. Let us hope a large part of it goes to those who deserve it. Edited on May 14, 2012, 11:16am

05-15-12  12:07am - 889 days #11
slutty (111)
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Originally Posted by BadMrFrosty:


Very true but the things you mentioned are tangible goods that have to be moved from one place to another thus introducing a variable cost depending on where the item was produced and where it is sold. Something that is intangible like a digital porn video has the same costs regardless of the physical location of the customer so should cost the same to all.


I think there is a part of cost that is related to cost of living in the area (real value of a dollar) as well as what the market will bear. I think there is a lot that goes into the cost of an item aside from phyiscal costs, for example MP3's in the UK seem to run around $1.30 US, whereas in the US they are rarely over a dollar - couldn't the same argument be made there? Also, I'm not sure how taxes work on an item like this, but that could additionally be a difference for the content producers. Bunny Lebowski: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars.
Brandt: Ah hahahahaha! Wonderful woman. We're all, we're all very fond of her. Very free-spirited.

05-15-12  02:02am - 889 days #12
BadMrFrosty (56)
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Originally Posted by slutty:


I think there is a part of cost that is related to cost of living in the area (real value of a dollar) as well as what the market will bear. I think there is a lot that goes into the cost of an item aside from phyiscal costs, for example MP3's in the UK seem to run around $1.30 US, whereas in the US they are rarely over a dollar - couldn't the same argument be made there? Also, I'm not sure how taxes work on an item like this, but that could additionally be a difference for the content producers.


Again you are correct but I would again put forward my take Regional pricing does not take into account what the market can bear or the economical state, it places are arbitrary penalty on anyone that does not live in the USA. Taking your MP3 example, if I bought a MP3 from a UK based store I would pay the price that that store charges. If I shopped around I could buy the same MP3 from a US based shop, a Russia based shop, a Japan based shop and yes pay different prices but I would pay the same price as all the other customers of that shop. The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Frank Zappa

05-15-12  09:32am - 889 days #13
Capn (28)
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If an internet subscription sells for $19.95 in the USA & the Webmanagers are making a satisfactory profit based on that, what justification is there for charging folk subscribing in other jurisdictions more when the costs are the same?

It is simply profiteering!

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

05-15-12  10:59am - 889 days #14
Reveen (0)
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Originally Posted by Capn:


If an internet subscription sells for $19.95 in the USA & the Webmanagers are making a satisfactory profit based on that, what justification is there for charging folk subscribing in other jurisdictions more when the costs are the same?

It is simply profiteering!

Cap'n.


I could understand if there was a small amount tacked on due to exchange rate difference or something but the differences are often so huge that it can't be anything other than profiteering.

One common trick that comes up on CCBill is that if a site advertises itself as $29.99 when you go to the CCBill page to sign up the fee becomes �29.99 which when you convert to dollars is currently about $38.50 but when the euro was stronger a few years ago it used to be about $45. I don't know how much of that $8-15 difference went to the webmaster and how much to CCBill but it was a huge profit on top of the existing profit made per subscription.

I guess that CCBill thought that perhaps people were gullible and couldn't tell the difference between euro prices and dollar prices or perhaps they thought that customers didn't care and that their need for porn superseded rational thought and consideration of value for money.

Either way its a pretty shady way to do business and shows the contempt that they have for customers. I can only speak for my experiences in subscribing from euroland but I'm guessing customers in the UK, australia and other territories have been treated just as badly.

And as someone else above mentioned, this isn't an issue of workarounds, its a matter of principle really. Just because we subscribe to porn doesn't mean that we have to be treated as fools or suckers.

05-15-12  12:00pm - 889 days #15
pat362 (369)
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^Your's is probably one of the best example of Regional price gouging that CCBill is known for. They use the price listed in US dollars and when you go to sign up then they keep the same numbers but change the denomination so that instead of getting the equivalent of the US cost in Euro then you actually get to pay what amounts to almost double the cost.

The only part I'm not competely sure on is whether CCBill shares the money with the webmaster or if they keep it all for themselves. Long live the Brown Coats.

05-15-12  02:48pm - 889 days #16
Capn (28)
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As I said in another thread a while back, I do not have an issue with paying a premium for shipping of tangible goods.
It used to be that UK Harley part suppliers used to charge £s for $s. This covered their importation costs & saved their customers the risk of ordering sight unseen goods.
I thought that was an OK deal.

This scam however, is an outright rip-off!
As CCBill say they are requested to do it by the Webmanager, I take it they must each get a cut of the loot.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!
Edited on May 15, 2012, 02:56pm

05-15-12  07:13pm - 889 days #17
Reveen (0)
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Originally Posted by Capn:

As CCBill say they are requested to do it by the Webmanager, I take it they must each get a cut of the loot.

Cap'n.


Helpfully CCBill make their webmaster configuration instructions public so we can see that CCBill make the options available and its the webmasters that have to choose (I know that this has already been said on previous threads but there is no harm in reiterating it)
http://www.ccbill.com/developers/demos.php#admin-demos

There is a choice of 3 settings for regional pricing, Daily Dynamic which is fairest and uses actual real-world exchange rates, CCBill recommend which uses unfair rip-off rates and Custom which allows webmasters to set the prices themselves.

I had a look at some webmaster forums and although some webmasters thought that it was unfair and refused to use it, some others had different opinions like: (http://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=939760 )
"If the owner of a site you're pushing with regional pricing puts his price on the tour, then he's a fucking moron and you shouldn't be promoting it in the first place.

I've NEVER placed a price on my tour....It's my job to sell the customer to the point to get him to click on the join link.....You never tell the price until you absolutely have to and by then, you should've already sold the customer enough to where he/she will accept the price...

The other day, I got a $141 sale off of my $99 option....I regularly get $40 sales from my $29.99 option.....Europeans will pay 99 euros just like Americans will pay 99 dollars.....However, the person who has his price on the tour with regional pricing is just shooting himself in the foot.
"

and
"I've been using regional pricing on my own site since the feature came out, and it's been great. I don't mention a price on my tour, just tell the customer exactly what to expect. so by the time they get to the join page, there are no surprises."

So not only do these two particular webmasters want to rip off non-US customers, they want to deceive them as well.

As customers of porn sites over the years I'm sure we've all fallen victim to a scam or two like ye olde pre-selected cross-sale and the dodgy billing companies where its almost impossible to cancel the credit card charge, regional pricing is yet another scam. You learn from your mistakes and as customers if you get stung once you become wary. The porn business gets given a bad enough name by "normal people" and then it goes and pisses off its customers.

05-15-12  11:33pm - 888 days #18
Capn (28)
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Useful evidence there, Reveen.
It just goes to show, as I suspected, it is a conspiracy between CCBill & less worthy Webmanagers.

If CCBill withdrew this indefensible 'service', these thieves wouldn't get the option!

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!
Edited on May 15, 2012, 11:38pm

05-16-12  12:39am - 888 days #19
slutty (111)
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Originally Posted by BadMrFrosty:


Again you are correct but I would again put forward my take Regional pricing does not take into account what the market can bear or the economical state, it places are arbitrary penalty on anyone that does not live in the USA. Taking your MP3 example, if I bought a MP3 from a UK based store I would pay the price that that store charges. If I shopped around I could buy the same MP3 from a US based shop, a Russia based shop, a Japan based shop and yes pay different prices but I would pay the same price as all the other customers of that shop.


I would think that a user in the UK may not be able to buy an MP3 from the US amazon.com, and would be automatically redirected to .co.uk? Otherwise, why would anyone in the UK by an MP3 there - and pay 30% more? My point was mainly that just because say $1 = 54 rupees, that doesn't mean, for example, it costs 54 rupees to buy a Coke in India (it is in fact quite a bit less).

I agree with you all that it is likely a money-grab, but sites may use it to make up for extra costs related to currency conversion, tax differences, etc.

I am curious if sites that do this type of thing maintain it when the conversion no longer breaks in their favor? For example, the Canadian dollar would actually be advantageous to the Canadian consumer at this point (only slightly). I doubt the Euro or Pound would ever drop far enough, however. Bunny Lebowski: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars.
Brandt: Ah hahahahaha! Wonderful woman. We're all, we're all very fond of her. Very free-spirited.

05-16-12  05:17am - 888 days #20
BadMrFrosty (56)
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All of these do it:

http://www.pornusers.com/site_company.html?id=5860

Capn, maybe you want to edit your first post to include the list of culprits. That way it will be easy to see which sites we should avoid without having to wade through the thread. The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Frank Zappa

05-16-12  09:09am - 888 days #21
Capn (28)
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OK, not a bad idea, Mr.Frosty. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

05-16-12  09:15am - 888 days #22
Capn (28)
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Originally Posted by slutty:


I agree with you all that it is likely a money-grab, but sites may use it to make up for extra costs related to currency conversion, tax differences, etc.


Just take a look at Reveen's post number 17 on this thread, if you are in any doubt.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

05-17-12  11:56am - 887 days #23
Claypaws (44)
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Originally Posted by slutty:


...Also, I'm not sure how taxes work on an item like this, but that could additionally be a difference for the content producers.



When I queried this with Femjoy about two years ago, the webmaster said:

"As for pricing, yes, the higher prices for UK and EU are mainly caused by the tax legislation."

I did not debate the point nor ask for proof but that is what he or she told me.

Capn's OP suggests though that Femjoy are no longer operating regional pricing. If that is so now, it is hard to understand the validity of their earlier comment.

I just tried the join link for Femjoy and though it shows 19.95, with no stated currency, clicking through the join process onto the CCBill signup does indeed show $19.95 and the numbers change when you select a different currency, £13.17 for example.

Perhaps the effect of higher taxes is still true but Femjoy, for one, are now prepared to take the hit rather than pass it on to their customers. Edited on May 17, 2012, 12:14pm

05-17-12  12:13pm - 887 days #24
Capn (28)
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I'm afraid I think that response was probably a fob off.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

05-17-12  12:19pm - 887 days #25
Claypaws (44)
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It may well have been. While you were replying, I was editing my entry

It confirms that Femjoy are not regional pricing now, exactly as you said.

Also, I just noticed that the CCBill join for Femjoy is also offering me a cross-checked join for Joymii at £9.90 recurring, yes that is nine pounds ninety.

joymii's own join page, however, shows 19.95 (no currency) and clicking it takes me to a CCBill for £19.95 with a cross checked join for Femjoy at £13.17.

Is there any sense to this lark? Edited on May 17, 2012, 12:27pm

05-17-12  01:43pm - 887 days #26
Capn (28)
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Yes.

Basically, there are plenty of people out there who will take you for as much as they can get!

These relatively few bad apples basically tarnish the image of the industry, making life more difficult for the good guys.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!
Edited on May 17, 2012, 01:46pm

05-18-12  09:39am - 886 days #27
Denner (233)
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I've come into this thread quite late - but I certainly agree with the ol' Capn in the main/first input:
I'm with you - all the way
Give me some time to read all in this thread (been rather busy, lately) - and let's keep this one alive..
"I don't drink anymore - I freeze it, and eat it like a popcicle"

06-05-12  05:39am - 868 days #28
Claypaws (44)
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Originally Posted by Capn:


I'm afraid I think that response was probably a fob off.

Cap'n.


I think this is far more complicated than we porn hounds would like to believe. Remember that we are talking about supply of goods or services to EU residents. EU legislation is mind-numbingly complicated.

Here is a reference to the British Library's policy for charging EU and non EU customers for the supply of electronically delivered documents. We can assume that the British Library is not motivated by greed.

http://direct.bl.uk/bld/Help.do

Search in that document for the string: "EU VAT regulations"

Without breaking copyright, I can paraphrase but not quote the relevant section.

It indicates that UK and EU customers provided with documents delivered on-line must be charged 20% VAT but non EU customers are not charged VAT. And that is what is required by EU law.

Such tax will add approximately $6 to the cost of a $29.95 subscription.

Further, the biller is also required to provide VAT tax returns to the EU and there is an administrative overhead associated with this which the biller is entitled to recover through its charges, whether it distributes the overhead uniformly amongst its customers, thus charging non-EU residents for EU overheads, or charging the overheads only to EU residents. There is freedom to allocate business overheads as one wishes but there is no freedom as to when and how to charge VAT.

The applicable VAT rate depends on both the location of the customer and the location of the billing agent as this even more complicated document shows:

http://www.iberpass.com/terms
(search there for "European Customers (EU)")

We may not like this but the only route available for us to challenge legislation is through our parliamentary systems to the European Parliament. It is not the fault of the websites or the billing companies, who are required to comply with legislation. Moreover, the extra charge is not pocketed by the website or the biller but is paid to the EU through the tax system of the biller's country.

I do not like the consequences of the law either. And I am not a lawyer.

I would add that it is of course possible for a dishonest website to add further, unjustified charges to the legitimate and required charges, hiding under the cloak of the legitimate charges. A charge to EU residents of VAT plus overheads is legitimate and so a total difference of some $6 to $10 on a $29.95 subscription is reasonable, given that $6 of it is the direct charge of VAT which must be paid to the EU. Anything more than a $10 difference is probably opportunistic and exploitative. Edited on Jun 05, 2012, 05:48am

06-05-12  07:56am - 868 days #29
elephant (65)
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Yeah I'll never understand taxes, far to complicated, all I can say I still refuse to pay more for living in the UK, its wrong and if others don't do it then it can't be todo with texes you wouldn't think.

Anyway another one for the list inthecrack.com says $34.95 but in Europe its gonna be $39.95 I'm afraid. "Women are like tricks by sleight of hand, Which, to admire, we should not understand." WILLIAM CONGREVE

06-05-12  08:41am - 868 days #30
Claypaws (44)
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The reason some do it and some don't is because the tax depends on the location of the customer AND the supplier.

1. A site based outside UK or EU must not charge VAT to anyone.

2 A site based inside UK or EU must charge VAT to customers resident in UK or EU and must not charge VAT to customers resident outside UK or EU.

All the sites that charge regional pricing are based in UK or EU and are therefore required by law to charge VAT to UK and EU customers.

Any site based in UK or EU that does NOT charge regional pricing is (probably) breaking EU law, either by intent or by accident, since ignorance is not a defence in law. There may be some legal complexity round the definition of "site based in UK or EU" that can provide a loophole in some circumstances, but I am not an international tax lawyer.

Edited on Jun 05, 2012, 08:51am

06-05-12  09:58am - 868 days #31
Claypaws (44)
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And the inthecrack one is a mystery to me. It does look like opportunistic exploitation.

I clicked through their difficult signup form. It gave me £27.01

If I selected $ pricing, it gave me $39.46

Converting £27.01 to $ at current exchange rate via travlang gives $41.54

ITC also have a pdf you can print out and mail them cash or money order instead for $34.95

The company is in Canada. As far as I know, Canada has never been part of Europe.

06-05-12  06:21pm - 868 days #32
Capn (28)
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Don't let complex legalities bog you down.
The concept is quite straight forward.
Most often the sites using regional pricing are non EU.
It is nothing to do with local taxes, it is simply geared towards charging as much as they feel they can.

Just check out Reveen's post earlier in this thread.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
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( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
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06-06-12  08:21am - 867 days #33
Claypaws (44)
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I think Reveen's post is an oversimplification of websites' attitudes because it extrapolates the rogue behaviour of a few and generalises it. Mine is an oversimplification because it implies that local taxes are the main reason for regional pricing.

Local taxes most certainly are relevant. Legal requirements are real and not the invention of greedy sites. The example I gave of the British Library is a case of legitimate regional pricing determined by tax law.

It is also true that some websites use regional pricing to charge as much as they can. Adding a bit to the exchange rate does indeed allow sites to make additional profit. This is the same kind of thing as high street currency shops, in which there can be huge differences between how much you get for the money you hand over.

The problem is determining which category a website's reason for local pricing falls into. Boycotting all regional pricing, including when it has a legitimate reason, will simply force those with legitimate regional pricing out of business and we will be left only with the rogues.

Boycotts have no effect on rogues anyway. They will just find another way to screw us. Regional pricing is one of several mechanisms. Others include rotating content over time, offering fewer discounts, making it hard to cancel, using predominantly licensed content instead of exclusive content, and many others. And if they do not screw us, they will screw someone else. What they will not do is change their behaviour as a result of our boycott.

We should also realise that sites exist to make money for their owners. The clever ones do it without making us feel bad about it.

06-06-12  11:12am - 867 days #34
Capn (28)
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I think we should agree to differ on the issue.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
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( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
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06-06-12  11:36am - 867 days #35
Claypaws (44)
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Yes Cap'n, my friend. I think that is a good idea.

CP

06-07-12  10:36pm - 865 days #36
turboshaft (24)
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Originally Posted by Capn:


What I am trying to do is consign the greedy & unfair practice to history.

Cap'n.


Then your best bet is to 1.) become a billionaire; 2.) then start a successful porn site that serves as a model for the industry; and 3.) finally get every legitimate paysite to follow your anti-regional pricing lead.

Good luck figuring out which of those steps is the hardest!

Personally, if I had a billion or so dollars I think I would prefer to go the start-my-own-space-company route, a la Elon Musk (though he got his fortune from the Internet, so he probably knows better than to spend it all on porn). "It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works." - Gen. Jack D. Rippper, Dr. Stranglove

06-08-12  05:29pm - 865 days #37
Capn (28)
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Any tips on 1.)

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( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

06-09-12  04:14am - 864 days #38
Thomas20 (2)
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Claypaws’ comments on the applicable of tax are incontrovertible. Equally Reveen’s research is illuminating. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

For a third thing to throw in the mix – some countries have lower net incomes which will alter the affordability of the product being sold. It is not unreasonable in my view to offer to sell your product to those people for a lower price even if the cost of the supply is the same. Which is not to say I think that precision could be achieved or that this could ever justify a difference between UK and US or across the Eurozone (although Greece may soon be an exception). I am not sure between which two countries it would be justifiable as I have not researched it, but I think the principle is sound.

On the tv we are faced with continual adverts from ASDA (part of Walmart), Tescos and all the big supermarkets about how they are ‘rolling back’ their prices and are cheaper than everyone else. The price in ASDA for 7 pack club biscuits this week was £1.79 and for fairy liquid washing up was about £1.50. In the pound shop I could buy each of the items for….£1. We are being ripped off left, right and centre. Keeping up with it all is exhausting. I don’t think subscribers to adult films are being singled out for special treatment.

I like that after lost of posts expressing different views no-one has found it necessary to start slagging anyone else off. There aren't many forums where that could be said.

06-10-12  02:49pm - 863 days #39
Capn (28)
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I have never heard of regional pricing being used to lower prices.

Just raise them.

Cap'n.

PS. Yes, this is the most civil ( 'mature' ? ) forum I have ever visited.
It is to be cherished.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!
Edited on Jun 10, 2012, 02:52pm

06-11-12  12:55am - 862 days #40
slutty (111)
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As with any product, I think for the most part they charge what the market will bear. If these sites saw a huge drop in membership from certain regions, they probably wouldn't do it, but I can only assume that is not the case. Perhaps Capn's boycott may get them to not do it, however.

As Thomas said, price manipulation is not exclusive to porn, I'm not sure if it is still the case but Amazon used to give different people different prices. I wouldn't be surprised if pricing of products (not just porn) by postal code is all that far off - if the cost of living index is higher, charge them more, after all they are used to paying more! Bunny Lebowski: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars.
Brandt: Ah hahahahaha! Wonderful woman. We're all, we're all very fond of her. Very free-spirited.
Edited on Jun 11, 2012, 01:02am

06-11-12  09:45am - 862 days #41
Capn (28)
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Ethically profits should be based on a 'cost plus' basis rather than the, 'Let's see what we can squeeze out of them' approach.

Sure with tangible goods there are variable delivery costs.
Going on the 'cost plus' ethos virtual goods effectively should cost the same globally.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

06-11-12  04:39pm - 862 days #42
Claypaws (44)
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Yes this is certainly a civil forum and I appreciate the respect shown to people with differing views.

It could be argued that a "cost plus" basis is actually less ethical than the model Thomas20 describes, whereby price reflects the ability or willingness of the "customer" to pay.

It is harder to argue this ethical model for porn than, say, for medical drugs. If a large pharma develops a drug which has worldwide applications and sells it, worldwide, on a cost plus basis, then the poorest 90% of the world's population would be excluded from ever being able to buy it.

But charging residents (or their governments)in the 10% richest part of the world a great deal more would enable the company to subsidise its sales to the poorest 90%, or even give it to them free of charge.

Surely it could be argued that the latter model is more, not less, ethical.

Then it follows that the "cost plus" model is not necessarily more ethical in all circumstances. The ethics are not absolute but depend on the product being sold, its development costs and the consequences to the different customer groups of the different pricing models.

I doubt that our politicians would look very sympathetically on complaints from customers about inequality in worldwide porn prices. But producers do need to make a profit in order to stay in the business of fulfilling our addiction. If it is a question of a producer either surviving or not, maybe they have the choice of charging more to those who are accustomed to paying it, or increasing their equitable price for everyone. It is hard to say which choice would give them the greater income.

In the UK, are we not used to paying more than the US for everything except healthcare? Everything from hard drives to petrol costs very much more over this side of the pond. But I would rather have it that way than have ambulances require payment before they will take me to hospital.

06-12-12  01:02am - 861 days #43
slutty (111)
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Originally Posted by Capn:


Ethically profits should be based on a 'cost plus' basis rather than the, 'Let's see what we can squeeze out of them' approach.



Sorry, I just had to laugh at this one, expecting large global companies to behave ethically, that'd be the day!

I don't really think delivery costs have anything to do with some of these pricing schemes in online retailers, it is greed/profit motivated. I agree that it is clearly unethical for a site that uses customer data to determine you are looking for a TV to bump the prices up a couple of percent, but unfortunately in business these days ethics doesn't seem nearly as important as profits.

Virtual goods, especially porn, I'm sure are very difficult to price to begin with. What says one site is worth $20, and the next is worth $30? Bunny Lebowski: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars.
Brandt: Ah hahahahaha! Wonderful woman. We're all, we're all very fond of her. Very free-spirited.

06-12-12  01:19am - 861 days #44
EverlastingEdge (0)
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Videobox use to do it you pay more if your from uk, but now it's back to normal. Now Devils Film has done it but worked out a way to bypass it lol. Just change your region to US and you get charged their rate. Devils Film has special discount of $9.99 that's around 5 pounds in uk, but with the regional thing it cost £9.99 and sometimes the special discount didn't even show up so would come up to £19.99 in total that's $34.00 insane.

06-12-12  09:17am - 861 days #45
Capn (28)
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Virtual goods & tangible goods are completely diverse and reference to tangible goods clouds the issue.

I know ethics doesn't venture much into the real world, I am not that naive. I am not expecting it, just saying scams & profiteering needs to be called when it is going on.

I am basing my 'cost plus' argument on virtual goods, not real world essentials. Everyone is in business to make money, after all.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

06-12-12  11:01am - 861 days #46
Reveen (0)
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Originally Posted by Claypaws:

I doubt that our politicians would look very sympathetically on complaints from customers about inequality in worldwide porn prices. But producers do need to make a profit in order to stay in the business of fulfilling our addiction. If it is a question of a producer either surviving or not, maybe they have the choice of charging more to those who are accustomed to paying it, or increasing their equitable price for everyone. It is hard to say which choice would give them the greater income.

In the UK, are we not used to paying more than the US for everything except healthcare? Everything from hard drives to petrol costs very much more over this side of the pond. But I would rather have it that way than have ambulances require payment before they will take me to hospital.


I think broadening the argument to other products is a false argument. There are tangible reasons for physical items to be more expensive in one country than another. Also an argument like "well we pay more for other stuff anyway" is a weak argument.

Porn downloads are intangible items, the cost to send bits to europe rather than the USA are so negligible as to not matter.

I don't think local taxes can be used as an excuse either because if the website is paying local taxes then this is already factored into the price that the website charges. The website doesn't collect a higher tax rate off foreigners than it does local customers. If there was a local tax rate of 20% and an "export" tax rate of 30% then I think this argument would have merit but I think as it is the tax argument is a red herring.

I think this argument really deals overwhelmingly with sites that originate in the US or that do most of their business in dollars, thus they fix their prices based on the dollar (like met-art). I've found the incidence of Sterling or Euro-denominated websites imposing regional pricing to be much lower than that of american websites, perhaps US members could mention if they've been charged regional pricing by European websites?

Perhaps these US dollar websites are under the false impression that Europeans are wealthier than them? Perhaps they've been living under a rock and haven't heard of the "Euro Crisis" (with Spain now requiring a bailout there is a good chance that the entire Euro may collapse). Or perhaps they just think that we are rubes and are gullible enough to pay over the odds for their sites (which clearly some subscribers probably are).

I don't see why I should be charged more than an American for no good reason (and there is no valid reason for regional pricing in my opinion) and I don't see why I should be subsidizing other users just because they are one nationality and they are another.

06-12-12  03:23pm - 861 days #47
Capn (28)
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Originally Posted by Reveen:


...perhaps they just think that we are rubes and are gullible enough to pay over the odds for their sites (which clearly some subscribers probably are).

I don't see why I should be charged more than an American for no good reason (and there is no valid reason for regional pricing in my opinion) and I don't see why I should be subsidizing other users just because they are one nationality and they are another.


I quite agree.

Cap'n. Admiral of the PU Hindenburg. 2009 PU Award
Hilarious Post of the Year 2010 PU Award
( I would have preferred it to be Helpful Post of the Year for Guys who Hate 'Retail Therapy' ) :0/
Sanity is in the eye of the Beholder!

06-12-12  03:59pm - 861 days #48
messmer (137)
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Yep, I agree as well! There is no fairness in regional pricing. The way they usually do it with Canadians is to take U.S. Dollars and convert them to Canadian Dollars at today's rate and charge accordingly. I think it should be done this way with all countries.

06-12-12  05:59pm - 861 days #49
Reveen (0)
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Originally Posted by messmer:


Yep, I agree as well! There is no fairness in regional pricing. The way they usually do it with Canadians is to take U.S. Dollars and convert them to Canadian Dollars at today's rate and charge accordingly. I think it should be done this way with all countries.


That option is there in the CCBill menus that the webmasters have access to, its up to the webmaster to select it rather than the CCBill suggested pricing (ripoff) or custom pricing (usually ripoff).

06-12-12  07:14pm - 861 days #50
Toadsith (48)
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On a sort of tangent from regional pricing... How about region-specific products?! Since messmer brought up Canadian Dollars being that he is all a resident of Canada and whatnot, I just wanted to point out that Burger King is really giving Canada the Royal treatment as compared to us lowly Americans! (And no, you cannot point out that both Mexico and Canada and all of those other folks below the equator too can rightfully call themselves Americans as they live on the North or South American continents. We are the United States and we took that word and you can't have it. Maybe you could have North... or South... no... some of us are rather attached to South... so you really can't have that either.) Anyway, my obfuscated point is this:

Canadian Burger Kings are not only selling poutine - which is an awesome invention of the Quebec province (the specific town is a matter of rather fierce debate), but this last Sunday when I was up in Brockville to watch Prometheus (which you shouldn't bother seeing because it is mostly a pile of loosely held together genetic and anthropological ideas with so little character development that the only character one has a smidgen of sentiment for is a ridiculously attractive and peculiarly smarmy android) I found out that they are also selling the Steakhouse burger! I grant that I should not be so attached to a food, especially one from such a violently unhealthy place like Burger King, but this particular family of burgers were a particular fetish of mine and I was absolutely crushed when they were pulled from the market. Little did I know that the evil bastards running the 3rd largest burger chain in the USA (yes, they got their ass kicked by Wendy's in 2011) had decided to pull the Steakhouse burger from only the USA's market. All this time all I'd needed to do was to pay the $6 blasted dollars for the round-trip over the bridge and explain to the two sets of guards protecting the two borders that a fast-food burger was a good reason to travel to a different country and after that minor inconvenience I could have satiated my need. Yet there was no such announcement, they simply went on producing this beloved food product a mere 20 miles away from me and all of those damned Ontarians wandering through my local supermarket remained smugly mute about the burgers they were hoarding just across the border.

Bastards.








Still, Galaxy theaters are quite nice so I'll be popping over again quite soon. "I'm not a number, I'm a free man!" ¡ Updated Link with Live Video filmed in Copenhagen in 1967 !

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Edited on Jun 12, 2012, 07:19pm

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